RBD: Guest Dr Alan Lewis: Brain Mapping

February 26, 2009

Kris Chronicles Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois
Transcribed by Dorothy Franklin (Ellora)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on February 26, 2009

MARK: Good evening and welcome to Reality by Design: A Kris Media Production here on ThatChannel.com. My name is Mark Bukator and I am still rather hoarse, as you can tell. [Laughing with a raspy voice.] I’m sitting here with John, of course.

JOHN: Yes. Thank you, Mark. We appreciate the fact that you are both here this evening and that you’re maybe not a hundred percent. But I’m a hundred and ten percent, so we’ll be fine. Of course we can’t have any fun at all without our friend, Serge.

SERGE: Oh, well that’s nice. I’m the fun person… Sometimes!

MARK: Well it’s good to be back. As hoarse as I am, it’s good to be back on the air, although you and Alan did an excellent job last week, I do have to say.

JOHN: You’re very kind for noticing that. And of course it’s true. Is Alan on? Do we have the Skype-boss on?

MARK: No, not yet. One second.

JOHN: Well anyway, yeah, that was a fun show last week and we got a lot of people told us that we did very well. Which of course you’d tell anybody that, especially if they were struggling.

[Laughter.]

MARK: No, I didn’t see you struggling at all.

JOHN: No, we had fun.

MARK: You did very well.

JOHN: And we’re back to the usual complement.

MARK: And Alan, are you there?

ALAN: I’m there but they called me on something other than the conference line, so I lost Dr. Lewis. We’ll need to get that straightened out here for a minute.

JOHN: Okay.

MARK: Does that need to be done on our end?

ALAN: Yes.

MARK: So Blu, you need the conference line. There should be a conference line on Skype.

SERGE: High Definition conference button, or something like that.

JOHN: Meanwhile, why don’t we share with our audience what we have planned for this evening? As a matter of fact, why don’t you just tell the story of that afternoon? Was it an afternoon when Serge got all hooked up to the machinery?

MARK: Pretty much. Pretty much. We were in Arizona for the workshop that we were doing . . .

JOHN: Right.

MARK: . . . and Marlene’s husband, Dr. Lewis did what we call brain mapping. Now I don’t want to go into too much detail obviously and . . .

JOHN: Perhaps he’ll do that.

MARK: Yes. But we did Serge… was brain mapped, and then we did Kris.

JOHN: Right.

MARK: And now we’re going to talk about the results and the comparative between the two.

JOHN: Right. Well apparently, not to steal too much of the fun from the show later that Dr. Lewis is . . . So the plan is on this show, is to have Dr. Lewis hooked in over Skype and basically he’s gonna’ give us an idea of what… the kinds of things he discovered. But the bottom line, the exciting thing for me is that Serge uses Serge’s brain in quite a different way than Kris uses Serge’s brain.

MARK: That’s right. That’s probably the only real conclusion you can draw at this point. But there is a very marked difference and we’re going to be showing you some of the material. In fact, some of those images are on the krischronicles.com website . . . [John started talking over top of Mark.]

JOHN: I’ve seen them there, yes. They’re lovely.

MARK: . . . the home page. Hoping to be able to flash them up on the screen but that may not happen. We’re working on that at this end.

JOHN: As a matter of fact, I think . . . Would it be useful to just direct people to where those images are on the Internet, because anybody listening is obviously on the Internet?

MARK: krischronicles.com And right on that Home Page there’s a “Click Here for More Details” on the Brain Mapping portion.

JOHN: Right. And there’s a little sort of reduced picture in the . .

MARK: Yes.

JOHN: . . . in the picture area.

MARK: And in fact, you can download the images so that you can have them nice and big on your own computer.

JOHN: Uh-huh.

MARK: The PDF – there’s three PDF’s there for download as well.

JOHN: Yes. I found that the color – the one with the color pictures of the skull . . .

MARK: The comparative.

JOHN: . . . the comparative and also the one with the charts showing the differences, sort of the percentage differences and what areas of the brain were being used . . .

MARK: Right.

JOHN: . . . very, very interesting.

MARK: Oh, it’s fascinating, truly fascinating.

JOHN: So it’s interesting to think that the brain is such a fluid . . .

[At that point, the "Computer Skype voice" interrupted, announcing the conference call.]

JOHN: That woman has a lovely voice.

MARK: Doesn’t she?

JOHN: If only she’d say something meaningful. Anyway, yes, if people wanted to go to the website they would have a preview of those. And we’re working with the technology here to see if we can’t maybe actually flash them onto ThatChannel’s screen as well.

MARK: So now, I believe we’re in the conference room. Do we have Alan in there? Alan, can you hear us?

ALAN: Yeah.

MARK: There we go.

JOHN: Oh good.

MARK: And you’re in the conference room?

ALAN: Yep and hopefully Dr. Lewis is still on his end and we’re all set to go.

MARK: Great.

JOHN: Oh great. Once you contact Dr. Lewis, Alan, why don’t you introduce him and just let us know and just give him an introduction? Does that sound fair?

ALAN: Well I can do that right now ’cause he’s been on in the background here waiting for us to get . . . we’ve been on the conference line for about twenty minutes waiting to get hooked up, so . . .

JOHN: Oh great.

ALAN: As well as an introduction, Dr. Lewis has an undergraduate background in Criminal Justice, a Masters Degree in Counseling. He did his Doctoral Degree in Clinical Psychology in Minnesota at the Minnesota School of Professional Psychology in Minneapolis. He is a practicing Clinical Psychologist. He specializes in psychophysiology, which is what most people call polygraph tests, lie detector tests – neurotherapy and also our words of the day “quantitative electroencephalography”, which is what we’re all here talking about today, which is otherwise known as brain mapping. So I’m gonna’ refer to him as Dr. Lewis, otherwise we’ve got too many Alan’s on the line.

MARK: Agreed.

ALAN: So Doctor, you still with us?

DR. LEWIS: I am. How are you?

MARK: Good. Welcome.

SERGE: Welcome, Dr. Lewis.

DR. LEWIS: Yes. Thank you very much. I’m pleased to be here.

SERGE: And I want to thank you for participating in our humble little Internet show here.

DR. LEWIS: Well I hope it can help. I thought the experience that fortuitously came along about a year ago was just an opportunity to do something quite different. And it was serendipitously, like I said, an opportunity. And unfortunately it took a year to generate some results. I do apologize for that. But I think we’re at the point where the results now for even for myself, can generate some enthusiasm for potentially looking to the future.

MARK: Absolutely. I find this very exciting and anybody we’ve talked to about this is just as equally excited. This is just the beginning.

ALAN: I thought maybe what we’d do is let Dr. Lewis talk a little bit about the methodologies he’s using, just exactly what he did and give the listeners a little background into just exactly what this procedure is and what the parameters of the test were.

MARK: Absolutely.

DR. LEWIS: Well primarily what we did do was, the actual protocol was very simply what I would call a comparative analysis. We really had the opportunity to record two presenting brain states. One initially from Serge and the other from Serge transmuting, I’m not sure what the terminology is [for his going] into Kris, but actually we were recording [differences] of that. Both the recordings, just for technical purposes, were done in an eyes closed fashion position [with "both" subjects being instructed to be still and no talking] to get the best recordings and the least artifactual recordings, the cleanest recordings.
They were done on very high quality equipment. I use actually a Mitsar, which is a thirty-two channel sampling EEG DC amplifier. We recorded nineteen channels. We used a link ears montage and recorded nineteen channels. And then took a year to analyze the results, which I apologize for. And I . . .

ALAN: Everybody that has the charts or sees the website, what Dr. Lewis is talking about is those surface locations that are all spelled out on the top of that representation of the brain.

DR. LEWIS: What I can point out too is with any EEG, the EEG generates so much data that really, what’s presented on the website, that I had looked at just the other day, by the way . . . Those preliminary PDF files and presentations of the data are just really elementary data based on what is presented in the EEG. There’s a lot more analysis that can and will be done.

JOHN: Oh. That’s interesting.

DR. LEWIS: . . . that particular data set. But it’s a preliminary analysis. It’s looking primarily at surface electrical activity and at some deep structure activity. And it did produce, what I felt, was some very interesting initial results.

ALAN: And actually, some of the most interesting results were the fact that Serge and/or Kris had to both sit there for a half an hour with their mouths closed.

[Laughter.]

JOHN: That’s not easy.

SERGE: That almost hurt my brain.

ALAN: And I don’t think that a lot of people, when they’re thinking about this, understand that this act of Serge channeling Kris, in this case was an act of simply “being there” with Kris present in some way, rather than having Kris talk to the doctor while the thing was going on. So what most people consider the channeling experience wasn’t really happening to much of a degree, but the brain states that Dr. Lewis measured did show some really interesting differences.

JOHN: Well perhaps Dr. Lewis, if you don’t mind, if you could just explain, in layman’s terms as much as possible, what differences you did discover between the way Serge and the way Kris use that common brain organ that they’re sharing.

DR. LEWIS: Okay, let me start out. And I’ll do this very briefly and very uncomplicatedly, I hope, is talk a little bit about what EEG is, so that people have a grasp of that. We’re really looking, we’re really measuring electrical patterns of the brain. But you have to remember that the brain is actually, the brain is actually an electrical/chemical entity. And so we’re really looking here at electrical patterns and surreptitiously looking at the chemical patterns that are supporting that.

Two things we’re looking at specifically. We’re looking at scalp surfaces, which represent the scalp cortical activities. And we all know those by the term brain waves. That’s what we’re looking at. We’re looking at basically the brainwaves in two particular brain states – the brain state of Serge and the brain state of Kris. But we have to remember that brain waves are not simply, they’re not simple things, they’re actually complex. And they’re referred to otherwise as complex waveforms. We have to remember that brainwaves are complex waveforms and that when we break them down, they actually contain other waves within them. If you think of them as a holographic or in harmonics, that within any given frequency, there are harmonics of those frequencies occurring within any given wave, as it were.

What we do to create the analysis is, we actually take those waveforms and we break them down through various transformations. One of the, one of the basic ones is Fourier breaking down the waveforms into the various components to see what waves are within each presenting wave.
I do want to comment just briefly on the [technological] revolution in this field. We have to remember that for the past fifty, sixty years, we had looked at brain waves predominately through analog sources, through EEG equipment that basically produced analog scripts of brain waves. And we looked at what we call the morphology or the script of the brain waves [that] are printed out on a piece of paper. And that is to date, still, even with neurologists, predominately the way brain waves are analyzed. Through the evolution of the digitized media, as it were, we’ve been able to, in just the past ten years, have a revolution in so much technology, including EEG technology.

So this equipment – and I want to give you this picture – equipment that perhaps ten years ago, twenty years ago, might cost a hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand dollars, you can probably purchase for ten to twenty thousand dollars, and you can probably utilize in your living room. Different from what you could do on just a relatively short period of time ago. So we have this technology that has come to us, and we have this availability to do these sorts of things in – the field is fast and furious in developing and understanding. Each and every month it passes more and more about the brain that we haven’t known before, but we have to keep in mind that this technology is so new and so revolutionary and actually so wonderful, that we’re now able to access data that we just never before had. You know we’ve gone from looking at analog scripts of brain waves to very sophisticated data of transformed brain waves, broken down brain waves.

But speaking of the differences, there was quite a dramatic difference in those brain waves, both . . . And we’re looking at two different things. We’re looking at differences in both location and frequency. So I’d like to give you those two terms. There are differences in those two states that were presented in both frequency and in location. Let’s first of all talk about location, because when Serge was speaking initially, he was really accessing areas in deep parts of the brain that were involved in certain areas of the brain. This was where the charts would be helpful. We don’t have charts present so this might be confusing. So I will just go ahead and give you those findings verbally.

Serge actually, when he presented and was recorded, actually was predominantly acting from two areas of the brain known as the prefrontal area, which would be Broadmann areas nine and Broadmann areas seven, which is in the parietal of the brain, which is sort of in the rear portion of the brain but not quite totally to the rear, but towards the rear. Those two areas, predominantly the prefrontal areas that Serge was involved in during the recording, is an area that deals with, very simply, deals with the ability to attend, the attention. It deals with inhibiting in some areas. It deals with precognition or precognitive functions, control and cognitive functions and thinking. In Broadmann area seven, deals very much in the arena of the brain’s ability to locate objects in space. It’s a temporal/spatial area of the brain that puts depth together and helps us do all sorts of orienting.

And so those two areas, if you get that, were really the areas that were very much activated, very much the electrical current was surging, there’s a little pun there, in those areas. What was very interesting, when we recorded Kris, when Serge transformed into Kris, that the two areas of the brain that were particularly the most active were language areas of the brain located on the left side of the brain, which are known as Broadmann area forty and Broadmann area twenty-one. Those two are areas of the brain that deal with, predominantly with language reception. So if I can just kind of do a playback, we have somebody that’s shifted from Broadmann area nine and Broadmann area seven, which were a prefrontal and a parietal area of the brain that dealt with attention and orientation of objects in space and some other functions, shifted from that to predominantly an area of the brain that dealt with language receptions – Broadmann area forty and Broadmann area twenty-one.

But I want to remind everybody that when we segment out parts of the brain, that’s something that’s very beguiling because the brain works as a whole. And it functions as a whole, so there really aren’t necessarily particular points that sub-serve an absolute particular function. The brain functions as a totality, sub-serving each and every other part as it functions. So that in itself was, were location areas that were very much different in the two recordings.

And then I’ll make a brief comment on frequency, because in the recording of frequency, which is shown very clearly on the graphs that I produced of the initial data, is that there was a dramatic increase in high wave frequency, in the frequency band or frequency, the name known as Gamma, which is essentially between thirty and forty plus hertz, which is a high brain frequency. And that was actually produced at particular surface locations of the brain. I don’t know that I can give a clear explanation as to why there was such a tremendous increase in the Gamma in that, between the two recordings, but that was rather dramatic.

If you look at Gamma and what it represents there is . . . there has been some research that shows that Gamma with persons that meditate, they actually show a slight increase in Gamma during meditation. But what we have here is predominantly, at the areas of the C4, T4 and P4, we have extreme increases in Gamma. And . . . I’ll make one comment and then I’ll close off here. The Gamma really resonates around forty hertz, and it’s associated with functions that . . . and I’m gonna’ give you the terms that are . . . I would use the term almost “holographic’ or “harmonically”, that there’s a holographic/harmonic synthesis of data that is probably going on at those higher frequencies. It’s, you know, Gamma is really the “Aha” place, for the position of the brain. It’s what happens in the brain when we do have the “Aha” experience, when we have a moment of great insight. It’s a place where we have what I might call “meta-cognicence”.

There are frequencies beyond Gamma, which we don’t measure, that we can measure, that actually go up to even a hundred, two hundred hertz. But with Gamma, in that tremendous increase in Gamma, it does represent that there is very likely some very extreme meta-cognition going on. And that’s pretty much all I can say to that.

NICOLE: So what you’re saying Dr. Lewis is that when Serge goes into Kris, it goes from the frontal lobes to the Gamma wave, right, and that that takes him to an entirely different place?

DR. LEWIS: It appears so.

ALAN: Well one thing I might jump in here with is that for those who are looking at the krischronicles website where these charts were posted, the initial discussion talking about the prefrontal and associatal parietal and then the language reception and left temporal, those are on a chart that is called Loretta. And there’s a green area on the left of the chart and a red area on the right. And that shows the differences of the areas of the brain that are being accessed by Serge and then by Serge as Kris.

And then the latest one about the wave frequencies, I notice that ThatChannel.com now has those up on the website. And what they are showing right now are the lowest of the frequencies in the Delta range. And as you go up the scale, as they are scanning that, on up the scale you end up with the highest frequencies at the bottom, which is the Gamma. And Serge, on the left, is almost completely blue. And Kris, on the right, has this bright, intense, reddish-orange spot, indicating this peak of activity in the C4 area. And you can even see on the chart on left is a little spike that’s going up quite high, and this represents . . . There are two tracings, there’s a blue and a red. And the tracing that spikes is the tracing of Kris. So this is where there is the greatest difference between the two. Whereas if you went back down to the Delta state, the scans between Serge, and Serge as Kris, look almost identical. So as the wavelengths increase the differences start to show up at the higher frequencies.

And the other thing I’d like to point out for most people is that generally these studies are done looking for pathology, looking for diseases of some kind. Of course, when something like this is used in a lie detector it’s looking for people not telling the truth. But there really is almost no information out there of when people are in a state of health. And particularly none when this phenomenon that we now call channeling is taking place.

JOHN: Well I have to say that I find that amazing.

SERGE: Especially all that comes from my little brain.

[Laughter.]

JOHN: Yeah, you’ve got a busy little brain there Serge.

SERGE: Yeah.

MARK: It’s amazing how that little scan on the monitor there made it look like a real-sized brain.

[Laughter.]

JOHN: Well Dr. Lewis, I wondered if you could comment . . . We were kidding around here a week ago looking at this data, and somebody made the comment that when Serge becomes Kris he loses about twenty-five points of intelligence. Now I realize that that’s a funny thing, funny way to look at it, but is . . . Can you talk about that?

DR. LEWIS: Well the original logarithms that I run the data through would suggest that. I don’t actually have that data specifically in front of me, but it appears, that does appear to be the case, and I’m not sure what the explanation would be for it. But there is the suggestion that there’s a loss of intellectual functioning from one state to the other for whatever reason.

JOHN: Now . . .

DR. LEWIS: You know what, and I will say, too . . . What I will say too in looking at this data, with all the research that I do, the first part of research is first of all doing the front end of the research through the protocols, cleanly and getting good data. That’s the first part. The second part is getting that data and being very careful with the analysis and conservative in the data crunching and putting it together and representing that data. But the third part becomes, to me, quite exciting in that process, which is the theory building or the model building. Because we’ve got the data, we can see what the data says, but then it behooves us all and behooves an excited researcher to then take that next leap, which it really is, a leap. A leap, whether it’s theoretical or otherwise, to say, “Okay. But we have this data. What model might it represent?”

And we do know. We see there’s a loss of IQ. We see the tremendous leap in Gamma. At the surface we see some of the deep source locations. We see the hyper-coupling I those deep source areas and increased brain activity. And we have to then start asking, “What does it mean? And why is that? Why is that occurring between that shift?” From that point on, we can build a model. And from the model we can go on to probably set a protocol to then prove out that model and hypothesis of the model or hypotheses that come along with the model.

JOHN: Well fascinating, really, really, fascinating. And, you know, absolutely I defer to your methodology there. I must say, though, just as a writer, I love the phraseology you’re using – meta-cognition and hyper-coupling. I’d pay money to get more of that.

[Laughter.]

ALAN: While he’s tallying up the bill for those words, why don’t you guys take a break for just a few minutes?

SERGE: Okay.

JOHN: Okay.

JOHN: Hyper-coupling – I mean, really.

SERGE: We’re on Voyager.

MUSICAL INTERLUDE

MARK: Welcome back to Reality by Design: A Kris Media Production here on ThatChannel.com. My name is Mark Bukator and I’m sitting here with John Hawkins, Serge Grandbois, Alan Aspinall and Dr. Lewis.

SERGE: With Marlene and Nicole in the background.

SERGE: Now just . . .

ALAN: Now just not to leave the Skype end of this out, we have had an interesting question from Bonnie. And she’s just wondering if, what Serge’s feeling or internal sensations are as he moves into this particular trance state that are being shown by some of these measurements.

SERGE: I can answer that, but just before I do, I want to take a couple of seconds to thank a few people for their donations, which means that the radio show can go on for the month of March. One of them is, well John, of course, Barbara, Reed and Samuel from Australia. So altogether, you’ve allowed the radio show to continue until the end of March.

JOHN: Yippee.

SERGE: So that’s very nice, because the radio show does require funds and those are usually from donations. So any time you want to donate more just go to the website and take care of that end of it and we’ll have more shows.

Now, as to what I feel, if I was to relate it to something that probably everyone can kind of connect with is, normally I’m in the driver’s seat. I’m at the steering wheel and I’m driving my car, myself. And when it’s time to switch over to Kris, I basically go into the back seat. I don’t become a back seat driver. I just am chauffeured at that point in time.

JOHN: And Kris is doing the driving.

SERGE: And Kris does the driving.

JOHN: Right.

SERGE: So in terms of an analogy that’s . . . [Serge coughs] Excuse me . . . That’s as best as I can put it. In other ways, I do feel as if I withdraw most of my attention from whatever is engaging it at this moment and I just retreat or retire inside. Not that there’s a specific place, per se, but I do retire from whatever’s going on and let Kris take over.

MARK: Now, as we were talking about at break just before we came back there, Kris doesn’t use words when he communicates with you. He gives you information packages that you interpret and put into words.

SERGE: And it’s much more prevalent for me . . . [Pause while Serge coughs.] It’s much more prevalent for me . . . [Serge starts coughing again.] I wish I had more control over this. Anyways, especially when I’m, as often happens, I just lay down at night and go to go to sleep and all of a sudden, poof, I get a . . . what I call, a “download” from Kris. And it does not come in words. It comes in a form of some kind of concept. And it could be filled with images, with sensations, feelings, all sorts of other elements that, something inside of me does the translating.

JOHN: Uh-huh.

SERGE: And sometimes I’ll run to the computer room and write it down or tell Mark, because otherwise it’s going to be gone.

JOHN: Now when you say that something inside of you does the translation, I happen to know that that is the left temporal lobe with Broadmann areas forty and twenty-one.

[Laughter.]

SERGE: Good brain. Good brain. It’s doing it’s . . . keeping it’s . . . earning it’s keep.

JOHN: But don’t you think it’s fascinating that these are the areas of the brain for language reception. I mean that’s . . .

SERGE: I think that’s very significant.

JOHN: Hello!

SERGE: Yeah. Very significant that it’s in that area. I know that a few years ago Kris suggested that he didn’t necessarily use the standard brain wave patterns that we know as, you know, Alpha, Delta and Theta, all that kind of stuff.

JOHN: Oh, really.

SERGE: And he gave them names. He said that one of them was what he called Samma, and one of them was what he called Rappa. And that these were actually functioning at negative frequencies they were so low, which is something that instruments are really not able to measure. They’re barely able to measure a certain number of the ones we have. But the technology, the equipment, is refining itself and who knows perhaps at some point.

JOHN: Well actually, to bring Dr. Lewis back into the discussion, you seem quite excited about the tremendous changes. I mean this seems to explain to me why it was, for instance, that Jane Roberts and Seth were never tested in the ways you’ve been describing, because we just didn’t have the technology.

DR. LEWIS: Very likely. Very likely.

JOHN: So it might be useful to do some other tests of other people who are channeling and create a little, you know, comparative study here. ‘Course you have to start somewhere.

SERGE: Um-hmm.

MARK: I think now that we have this base line, where we have comparative with Kris and Serge with their eyes closed, no talking, it would be neat to do Kris talking. And because, as we know, when he converses he does access, depending on the conversation and the topic, different layers, different depths.

JOHN: Oh, he’s definitely at his best when he’s talking.

MARK: Yeah. So it’d be interesting to see the differences there. As well as maybe bring Brahm into the fold and have Brahm, which is another personality, come through and see what kind of differences they are from Kris.

JOHN: The machine might blow up when Brahm comes through.

MARK: [Laughing.] Yeah.

ALAN: Well you know, his equipment is pretty good, but it isn’t good enough to measure somebody that’s not physical.

JOHN: Right.

MARK: Oh, I think we just got Kris on the record here.

[Laughter.]

MARK: Any other questions on Skype?

ALAN: Yeah. Sorry guys. I’m getting’ a little feedback here. Well, you know, Bonnie has again made a comment about something from Bashar that says when you study the brain you study it WITH your brain.

JOHN: Yes.

ALAN: So it’s like the eye trying to see itself.

SERGE: Did we lose him?

ALAN: Well we got some feedback from somewhere. I don’t know if you can hear at your end.

MARK: No.

JOHN: No.

MARK: You’re breaking up.

JOHN: But I take your point, Alan, the idea that, obviously, if we’re gonna’ use the brain to study the brain there’s some inherent limitations in that process. However, I think even with those limitations, what we’re learning from Dr. Lewis is that, boy oh boy, we’ve got some neat new ways of . . . And you know, you know the old, what did they used to call them, Electroencephalograms I think he was talking about, where they’ve got that jiggly line. And doctors, for years, have gotten pretty good at reading that jiggly line. But as Dr. Lewis points out, that jiggly line is just an analog representation of quite a coarse measurement . . .

SERGE: Yeah.

JOHN: . . . of electrical . . .

SERGE: Exactly. And I can understand, you know, when Bashar or others make the point that, you know, in order to study the brain you have to use the brain and that presents its own set of difficulties in its own way. But, of course, that should not be a reason then to just throw it all out the window, because it may have a certain quantitative or qualitative flaw. Because the information that can be gotten out of that study, and/or many other studies can still be extremely revealing, even in ways we’re maybe not even able to completely fathom right now.

JOHN: But also, the point that is not addressed in that analogy is that, yes, we’re using the brain to study the brain, but we’re really using consciousness to study consciousness.

SERGE: Yes.

MARK: Yes. Exactly!

SERGE: Yep. And if you can’t use your own consciousness to study consciousness what can you use?

JOHN: Exactly. But I like that idea though that, the comment that Dr. Lewis made about the “Aha” experience, and that the kind of, actually the kind of frequencies that Kris is generating is like the “Aha-est of the Aha”. So basically, when you’re channeling, Serge, it’s like . . . when . . . Sorry. When . . . I get mixed up. When you’re channeling Kris it’s like you’re having an hour-long ecstatic “Aha”.

SERGE: So if YOU get mixed up, I have no hope.

[Laughter.]

SERGE: I’m done for.

JOHN: But anyway . . . Yeah . . . That whole “aha” thing. I get the odd “aha’ myself, right. But it’s not . . . Oh, by golly. Aha.

[Kris enters the room.]

MARK: It’s funny, Kris coming out to talk on the Kris Radio Show.

[Laughter.]

KRIS: Indeed. We trust that you are comfortable.

MARK: Yes, thank you.

KRIS: And if you cannot utilize Kris to talk about Kris, what can you do?

[Laughter.]

KRIS: Now for all intents and purposes, to give a brief insight from OUR position, on the differences between Joseph’s own brainwave patterns or processes and when a flow of information originates from our quadrant, if you like, or our little corner of the universe. Under normal conditions Joseph’s own brainwave processes are a tightly knit arrangement of harmonics. Therefore that would present a certain kind of constrained set of frequencies. When Joseph literally shifts his perceptions aside, those normally constrained frequencies and processes are altered. They literally “open up”. They stretch well beyond their normal configured parameters to enable the quote/unquote “other” to filter through, whereas under normal conditions there is but a small degree of allowances. Once the shifting is done then there is a much larger degree.

Think of it as cheesecloth. Under normal conditions the weaves are fairly tight. They capture small particles that do not fit into his perception of himself. When he shifts, then that cheesecloth is expanded, allowing larger particles to filter through, which are recombined in the way that you have as the experience now communicating with you. Thus it is an innate process that everyone has. You all have this ability. But not all of you are able to make the allowing for it.

JOHN: Is that what you mean when you use the term “higher intellect”?

KRIS: Indeed. Joseph, in those situations, is shifting to a certain category of higher intellect to capture the material, those particles that have been allowed through. Does that make sense to you?

JOHN: Right. But he has to recombine them? Or at least . . .

KRIS: It is done at a certain layer of consciousness . . .

JOHN: Right. But with his resources.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: Uh-huh. Very interesting.

KRIS: And whether some like it or not all individuals who operate under these conditions, do the same thing. There is not one that is more or less “purer” than the other. They all operate within certain expanded waveband.

JOHN: So for instance, when I have a so-called “aha” experience, that is me doing a little wee snippet of what you’re talking about then.

KRIS: Indeed. As do others who quote/unquote “channel” or energy exchange. It is an innate principle of human consciousness from your end of the rainbow.

JOHN: Right.

KRIS: It is THE pot of gold.

JOHN: Right.

KRIS: We trust that also answers other inquiries. And now we will return Joseph to you. But we do want to thank Dr. Lewis for his patience. We could easily say that waiting one year for the translation of information was quite interesting foreplay.

[Laughter.]

JOHN: Aha.

KRIS: And we thank you.

JOHN: Thank you Kris.

MARK: Thank you. So if I grab my one ear and tug, and grab the other ear, will that stretch my cheesecloth enough to let the . . . ? [Mark laughs.]

JOHN: It might open your mouth.

[Laughter.]

MARK: Wow. That was pretty neat.

JOHN: Well, do we still have Dr. Lewis on line?

DR. LEWIS: Yes, I’m here.

JOHN: Oh good. So do you have any comments to . . . about what Kris has brought forward?

[There was a strange squealing sound on the air.]

JOHN: I didn’t want to alarm you. What’s going on there?

SERGE: Feedback.

JOHN: Ah. Anyway Dr. Lewis, I’m just interested I what your response or reaction might be to Kris’ comments.

ALAN: I think that was on their end.

JOHN: Oh. We maybe lost them.

ALAN: Well I think Nicole and Marlene were trying to watch on a computer in one room and Dr. Lewis was in a another on Skype, and I think the volume was getting picked up from one room to the other.

JOHN: Oh.

ALAN: But . . . Well at any rate, I think that’s an interesting thing that I think Dr. Lewis is going to be interested in. Because if, as a researcher, he intends to go out and try to reproduce these results, particularly with other people, I think what Kris has hinted at here is that anyone doing an energy exchange type of channeling is going to show similar brain patterns. And I think that opens up a whole field for research on Dr. Lewis’ end. And I’m sure there are other things that can be done too, also maybe trying to do these scans when Kris is actually coming through Serge, rather than just kind of sitting there in the wings.

JOHN: Um-hmm. But wasn’t that a lovely analogy, the cheesecloth analogy, which is already famous here. I love that analogy. So that we’ve got a finer weave on our cheesecloth in normal states, but that sometimes we can relax that and let larger particles that we would have rejected as “not us”, or not compatible, to pass through and to coalesce into insights within the structure. I love that analogy. I’m gonna’ go and buy some cheesecloth, I think.

[Laughter.]

JOHN: Some real coarse, real course cheesecloth.

DR. LEWIS: This is Dr. Lewis. Am I still on?

MARK: Yes.

JOHN: Yes. We hear you. Welcome back.

DR. LEWIS: Thank you. Yeah, another area that I work with is setting up protocols for neurotherapy, which really is setting up protocols for individuals to practice both what you might term pattern conditioning . . . you’d think neurotherapy is a new thing, but I commonly explain to people, it’s not really all that new. The fact that we have this digital equipment around allows us to utilize some very old [behavioral] technology, those of [various forms of conditioning].

One thing I did want to note out is the shifts that I think are most likely happening from Serge to Kris, in both location and frequency, are shifts in brain states that persons have shown can be trained to do. I’m not sure that they can do it at the level that’s happening with Serge to Kris, but as I noted earlier that there was, there is with a common phenomenon with meditaters to show a slight increase in Gamma. But I believe it’s a potential for all of us, particularly with the aid of modern technology, to stretch our brains, as it were, and to look at the potentiality for exercising and working to change our brain states in directions that we would like to, be it, for whatever reason, hopefully for reasons that support positive growth and health in individuals.

JOHN: Wow. I love that idea. So what I’m getting is that sometime in a year or two, I might buy a little biofeedback device and a program to run on my computer, attach a couple of sensors to my brain, and train myself to be way up there in the metacognition and the hyper-coupling.

[Laughter.]

DR. LEWIS: Great stuff. Yeah.

MARK: Well you know CMI is really doing that without the technology.

JOHN: Well there you go. That’s true.

SERGE: Which by the way reminds me, that we are soon to start Phase III of CMI.

MARK: That’s right. Right.

SERGE: The information is on the Consciousness Mentoring Institute website.

MARK: That’s right. The PayPal buttons are up. And make sure you read the blurb first. There are prerequisites, so to speak. And yeah, that’s all ready to go.

JOHN: Yes. That’s very exciting. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but Phase III of CMI is a completion of the first program, is it not?

MARK: That’s right. Yes.

SERGE: Yeah.

JOHN: And he said it was going to be about six months?

MARK: Yes. At least.

JOHN: Twice a month? Okay. So we’re talking fall, this year, the first cohort, so to speak, of CMI Consciousness Mentors are going to be leashed upon an unwary world.

MARK: Like locusts.

[Laughter.]

SERGE: Well . . .

DR. LEWIS: I’d like to maybe make one more comment on the buying expensive equipment.

SERGE: Please do. Please go ahead.

DR. LEWIS: I wanted to encourage people that they don’t need to run out and buy expensive equipment, that you are actually a walking, digital package, yourself. And that you can take that package that you already have and work with it. It’s very good digital equipment that we carry around on our shoulders.

JOHN: Oh. Well thank you for that.

MARK: Yeah. Just on a final note, make sure you keep the Reality by Design radio show on the air. Go to that “Donate” button on the Kris Chronicles site. Thank you very much Dr. Lewis.

SERGE: And we hope to have a follow-up on that at some time in the near future.

DR. LEWIS: Thank you.

JOHN: And thanks Alan and everybody else . . . Oh. Sorry, Dr. Lewis. I wanted to thank everybody else involved too, because there was a fair amount of back grounding and forthing that needed to be done.

MARK: Orchestration.

JOHN: Yes.

MARK: And have a good night.

JOHN: Great show.

SERGE: Thank you very much.

END OF SHOW

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