Kris Radio: Psychic Traumas and Illnesses

March 23, 2007

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois and Transcribed by Lisa Q. Pratt (Lauromar)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on March 23, 2007

MARK: Good evening and welcome to Kris Radio, it’s Friday, March 23rd on this beautiful spring-ish day. I’m your co-host, Mark Bukator and I’m here with…

JOHN: (chiming in) And I’m very happy to be here again, John Hawkins and welcome to Kris radio. Last week we had a wonderful session with Brahm, and it’s actually a bit up in the air as to what’s going to occur this week, but we’re looking forward to a great show, and of course, we have with us…

SERGE: Me! (Laughing) Serge and though I don’t remember much of what goes on for the next hour and a half, it’s nice to be here.

(Announcing information about upcoming workshops.)

MARK: So on our way over here tonight, we had a little stop-over at the “amazing maze”, a labyrinth. Ellen would be very proud of us.

JOHN: I never walked a labyrinth before but we have one not far from us, just a three minute walk from the studios here and it was very interesting thing. Well first of all it was a massive, massive job of brick-laying. Oh my goodness! And very beautiful to look at, but also, and Mark as you were saying, even f you go into it, not particularly in a meditative mood, you really can’t help but turn inward, as you go around and round and back and forth and finally get into the middle. It was a lot of fun, thanks, Ellen.

MARK: Yeah it was really amazing for me because [when] the three of us went in, we’re sort of joking, we’re talking and next thing you know we’re in three totally different areas of the maze, and we were quite quiet.

JOHN: But also, what I enjoyed, sometimes we would be walking side by side, the three of us sort of paced our entry into the maze, or the labyrinth, maybe a minute or two between each person entering and the result was that as we went around and round, sometimes we would be walking side by side with another person, sometimes we’d be coming towards each other and walking away from each other on opposite sides. It was a very interesting process.

MARK: I would highly recommend it to anyone. You can look on the internet for labyrinth. Many cities around the world have them, (there’s) a couple in Toronto. They’re all over there.

JOHN: So picking up from last weeks session with Brahm, I was saying, I was kidding with the boys here before the session, that Brahm has to come quite a long ways, even compared to Kris to be here with us, and we were actually talking about some people are in Spain who are going to be listening or are listening, some people are in California, some people are all around the world, so for us to think about our global consciousness, well what time is it wherever you are? What season is it? Is it spring? Is it fall? If it’s Australia, it’s something different and so we’ve got some considerations there, but can you imagine that for somebody like Brahm coming into our reality? How carefully he has to dial us in, in order to come into the proper now. It must be quite a technological feat.

MARK: Make the wrong turn and you end up in the wrong galaxy, wrong planet, wrong era. That really boggles the mind. I get a real kick out of that analogy. It’s so fine-tuning down to the second: location, and somebody’s coming in to visit…

KRIS: Now, we trust that you are comfortable and we thank you for your consideration.

MARK: Thank you, Kris.

KRIS: Indeed though you thought you were jesting to some degree, your explanation is not that far off the mark. Do consider that reality from your perspective and our own perspective is quite different. According to your sensory perceptions, your physical reality is very neatly organized and compartmentalized: everything in its place, and a place for everything as it were. There is the outside manifestations which are in their own way reflections and confirmations of your inner realities and dimensions, and that is the territory that we navigate in order to communicate with you through Joseph.

Your inner realities are filled with various worldviews, psychological atmospheres, some we would simply mention as more dense than others in their own psychological fashion without any sense of putting anything or anyone down has to do with certain emotional thicknesses as it were. Even your individual and collective moods if you wish, your rasas have to be taken into consideration. Not unlike navigating barely charted and often moving waters where what is under the surface of the water does not necessarily stay in place. Does that make some sense to you?

(yes it does)

KRIS: Thus it is in a certain manner, a most exciting adventure every time we dial our own stargate, as it were. Now this evening, you may get a mixed bag of goods. And we believe you already know that may spell trouble, and some of the material may even be somewhat controversial, but again, you have become accustomed to this. And principally we intend to address our discussion towards your notions of beliefs and health and illness, the interrelationship between your own emotional atmospheres, your emotional weather, if you wish and its manifestations in your physical form and in your physical reality. This indeed may prove to be a most interesting ninety minutes.

JOHN: So we’re supposed to strap in our seatbelts, is that the deal?

KRIS: That would be very good advice. Now, we also expect that the two of you, and possibly later on, some callers will add their own points of view in the discussion to further enhance understanding. Does this meet with your approval?

MARK: Yes it does.

JOHN: Absolutely.

KRIS: Indeed, so that would require you to sharpen your ears as it were. Now, more and more individuals in many different walks of life not only in North America, but in other worlds, meaning other countries, are becoming aware of their beliefs, their convictions and the impact and influences of these items in their lives and as a result, as is par for the course, there are many different kinds of distortions, interpretations, and misinterpretations that will find their way and we simply wish to address this evening some of these issues, hoping then to broaden the perspectives because as much of these materials expand in their own way, there is often a great deal of whittling and trying to reduce it to its most basic common denominators, which in truth includes a certain kind of censorship. And this is what we wish to address. You have all become familiar to a certain degree with the relationship between health well-being illness and beliefs, correct?

(yes)

KRIS: And the general notion concerning this is that you have illness because you believe in illness. Without any further exploration of the theme, as if obviously once you hear the words “illness and beliefs” that is it. “This is the understanding and now let us move on.” Let us point out to others that their illnesses are the results of their beliefs, is this how you also heard of these things?

MARK: I’ve definitely heard of those types of beliefs, interpretations I should say.

KRIS: Indeed. Does this meet with your approval? (To John) This is our interpretation of various interpretations that are floating around in the cosmos.

JOHN: Yes. Sure. The general idea is that if you believe you are prone to catching three colds in the winter, then you’re going to catch three colds every winter.

KRIS: Indeed. That is in another word, that you would call programming. You program yourselves to these situations. We would like to then present an expansion on this kind of subject matter because the notion is still very prevalent that beliefs are very suspect. You must watch out with them, as if they are some kind of psychological germ or bacteria that you can catch. Do not have a psychological sneeze, or your beliefs may be transferred to others, as it were, and all kidding aside, on this we believe it is an important enough subject matter to warrant an expansion and we may incorporate many things that we ourselves have addressed or others, into this stew of sorts.

Needless to say, there is indeed a grain of truth that if you firmly believe, as explained, and in so many other ways, you will then come to live what those beliefs imply, correct?

(Yes.)

KRIS: What we are trying to lay out here is that there may be far more to the issue than meets your precious and lovely eyes. Now we know full well that many people would prefer to keep things at their most simple level because it hurts the brain to have to think with two brain cells instead of one. But do not worry, thinking with two brain cells might actually create a cascading effect and to awaken many other dormant brain cells.

MARK: You mean we might actually use ELEVEN percent of our brain?

KRIS: Or more. What we are driving at is first of all beliefs are not like bacteria, germs and bugs that attack you. These are at their simple level, sets of ideas that you have acquired, collected onto yourself perhaps even like a small belief menagerie, and you feed them on a regular basis with additional related sets of ideas until you accumulate literally truckloads of these beliefs, and some are very contradictory to others whilst others are complementary, creating various types of psychological and emotional weather fronts on the surface of your own worldviews. Do you follow so far?

(Yes. Nice analogy.)

KRIS: Indeed. Of these beliefs or convictions: you, the individual, have acquired them simply through your own thought process and you give the ones that you collect additional or extra energy. You give them a stamp of approval as it were, as acceptable because you may already have others like it and these are complementary and others are contradictory that you keep in other areas of your own psyche and often they will clash. And at its most simplistic level, this is all fine and dandy because it appears rather straightforward. You have beliefs, you have outcomes. It seems rather simple on the surface, does it not?

(Sure.)

KRIS: And that may indeed be the problem itself. Trying to always keep these concepts in as simple a form as possible because it actually assists in not having to explore too much of Self. Such understandings can actually be utilized even to the point of crippling self-awareness, keeping it in rather logical and intellectual formation. Do you follow so far?

(Yes. Sure.)

KRIS: What we are eventually moving into is there are more complex issues and they literally fan out in all directions along those apparently simple lines of development concerning your beliefs and convictions and by this we mean the following: The majority of individuals, even many who read metaphysical literature of various kinds still maintain the idea that the physical world is a reality all of its own quite separate from the observer and it would seem that this is correct because from your vantage point, you can examine the apparent outside world. You can determine these are buildings, these are automobiles. This is not you, that is not you, that is not Self, this is not Self, these are not Self, and I am Self, I am separate from these things therefore physical reality is a separate thing from myself. This makes sense, does it not?

JOHN: At the surface level, sure.

KRIS: Indeed. When one begins to explore these concepts of reality creation that the individual and the collective create the experience of reality then the little cog wheels in the mind begin to un-rust. It is like applying a good dose of WD-40 and the machinery starts to function. Awakenings begin to add up and as in all good things, initially it appears this is a brave new frontier now before the individual and all of these fascinating concepts are very much like a buffet of sorts. And generally after a short amount of time, sometimes no more than reading a book or two, listening to one or two individuals, someone may think ‘Now I know how all of this works’. But that is still very much in a small sphere of understanding as Joseph pointed out in an analogy not too long ago. Simply going to kindergarten, playing with alphabet blocks, learning how to create a word out of different letters does not mean that the individual is now ready to write the next great ‘War and Peace’ novel, now does it?

(No.)

KRIS: The foundations are there and more education in a sense would serve that individual very well in expanding the construct of knowledge in that specific respect and we believe that our attempt this evening will then lead you to the next level, so to speak, to explore these apparently basic concepts into a more complex field as they are indeed far more complex than simply reading a line, a book, or so on and so forth. Now when the individual begins to investigate the notion that he or she creates his or her experience of reality, it may seem to make great deal of sense that believing in a thing indeed influences the outcomes which are themselves based on choices, as we’ve spoken about recently. The belief creates influence and the influences are chosen or not. Do you recall?

(Absolutely.)

KRIS: Now then, to take this one notch above as it were, we are suggesting that the entire notion of health and illness for example, in this context, might also benefit from a revision and perhaps new understandings can be gained. In the simplistic or simpler approach such as believing in illness causes illness, there might indeed be many disconnects and many distortions. And our particular observation is that simply thinking that one is no longer governed by beliefs concerning illnesses may work part of the time and not work a greater portion of the time. And it is not that the notions themselves and the concepts are at fault, but that the perspective and the investigations have not gone far enough. Now you are in this line aware that when you have a or many symptoms manifest through your body, that you can do two things. You can choose to begin believing that you do not have any illnesses in spite of the symptoms, but does that mean that the symptoms themselves dissipate?

JOHN: Mostly, no.

KRIS: Indeed. That may cause confusion for an individual who wants to firmly believe that it is as simple as wishing it away. Our contention is that there is more at play here than the simpler notion of wishing things away and in that, we bring you that not only are symptoms and communication from your subconscious or Inner Self as you are already aware, but your body, that precious arrangement of atoms and molecules that are themselves expressions of your consciousness is far more complex than you may ever have considered. It can be and will be influenced by the very nature of your perceptions and your own thought patterns, the concentrations that you entertain will directly impact the consciousness that forms your body and we believe this you are also aware to a certain degree, correct?

(Yes.)

KRIS: Now please continue to bear with us. Many individuals therefore believe that since their illnesses are the results of their bodies and they can turn that switch on or off at will, might also believe that regardless of what you put in the body, one should be able to counter any disadvantageous effects from substances not normally ingested or that might even be known to cause disadvantageous effects in the body. Do you follow so far?

JOHN: Yeah, mind over matter type of thing.

KRIS: Indeed. Some people have even toyed with the idea that they could even take or ingest poisonous substances, deadly chemicals and so on and so forth and that with mind over matter they should be able to counter and negate any such effects though that has yet to be actually proven. Do you follow?

JOHN: Yeah, a lot of dead people trying that.

(Laughing)

KRIS: Indeed it is funny how that happens, is it not?

JOHN: Well maybe not so funny to their relatives, but anyway

KRIS: Indeed. What we are getting at with this especially in light of the raising of awareness concerning global warming, the pollution and poisoning of the environment in almost all its various forms, water used by humans and animals for survival filled with chemicals and drugs of all kinds, the air polluted and so on and so forth, often in line with conscious creation is understood to be a variety of things, one of which is: If you do not think about it, read about it, listen abut it, it does not exist, it is not real if you close your eyes. Do you follow?

JOHN: Sure I have heard people argue that.

KRIS: Indeed. In the same vein, others may argue that if you give any energy in terms of even investigating these notions you are creating it, though they are not. Funny how that works as well, does it not? And these are in their own context interesting perspectives but in some other ways not necessarily very practical. There are other perspectives that can also be brought to the table as it were and one of these is that physical reality in terms of your body, because that is the reality you live within and then your body lives within an expression of your concentrations, your home reality, your physical form as it were, is directly influenced by the effects of your concentrations, correct?

(Right.)

KRIS: When an individual undergoes experiences that are deemed traumatic in any way and every sense of the word but does not deal with its effects and influences, the individual may tend as is done by almost all people, may tend to simply wish that the pain, whatever that may be will go away with the passage of time. It is said that time heals all things however time does not necessarily heal all things as it can allow you to push the traumatic event deeper into your subconscious where at some other point in your time continuum these things may surface again whether ten, twenty, forty, fifty or more years later where they demand then to be dealt with, do you follow?

(Oh yeah.)

KRIS: These are often manifested in many different physical and emotional and psychological symptoms to draw your attention to an inner conflict of some kind that you have neglected again perhaps a week or ten years or even forty years before and your physical organism bears the brunt of these actions. And very often that is as far as this understanding goes but we wish to push that envelope further out especially since it is to be understood that physical reality, the physical environment as you know it and understand it is itself an extension of your nature. It is an expression of whom and what you are as well as a confirmation of your beliefs and convictions and herein is the crux of the matter if you wish, that the creation of deadly chemicals and poisons, deadly not only to human beings but to many life forms on your planet is another manifestation of individual and collectively submerged denied and suppressed experiences often too painful for the individual or collective consciousness to seek to deal with. You may inadvertently encounter laboratories or other that perhaps even advertently create deadly gases, deadly chemicals, deadly drugs that find themselves in the environment in one way or another and also find their way into your bodies as another symptom but this time reaching you through an apparent outside source as another venue and a most important one to examine and consider deeply about the nature of your individual and collective beliefs or convictions.

JOHN: That’s interesting, Kris

KRIS: Does this make sense to you?

MARK: Yes. Very much

JOHN: And if I can just paraphrase, Kris

KRIS: Please do so.

JOHN: So that what I’m hearing is that the pollutions and the poisons that are in the external world, so that our bodies are not only responding to our internal issues and our bodies are very kindly expressing those in order to draw our attention to them, but our bodies are also bearing the brunt of the externalization of our, those same issues in the external world which then comes around full circle and attacks the body from the outside, so the poor body is getting it coming and going.

KRIS: Now do understand, we are not saying here that you are victims of the environment

JOHN: No, no

KRIS: Nor victims of yourselves, but you are individually and collectively making concerted efforts to begin to deal with individual and collective psychic traumas and pains of many sorts therefore the deep need for awakening in consciousness to bring healing and nurturing to the Self. It is not that the outside environment has nothing to do with the individual, but has everything to do with the individual since the world is you. Do you remember we said this?

JOHN: Oh yeah.

MARK: Many, many times

KRIS: We had an agenda when we said this.

MARK: You always do.

KRIS: That the world is not about the world, it is about you. So now we have come back to this, and the world will also display and encourage you to deal with your issues if not, if the individual still in some way denies any such involvement then there is the possibility of being susceptible to the influences of apparent external toxics or toxins, poisons and so on and so forth. The individual is after all the manifestor of the world. Does that make some sense to you? This is a complex subject thus it may even need more explanation.

JOHN: Yeah it is a complex subject, you kind of, you sort of feel you get a grip on it and then the whole thing turns around like a snake eating its tail and you’re left holding the bag as it were.

KRIS: But once you have the bag in your hand then you can make choices.

JOHN: Yes, well I mean the bottom line however the now says, whenever the now takes you, the bottom line is to be gentle and nurturing to yourself and to the world.

KRIS: Indeed. Whether you may think that an event happened ten, ten years, thirty years, forty years ago therefore is of no consequence, we would strongly suggest to revisit such notions and bring about a nurturing and healing psychological loving bomb.

JOHN: And you know if you think about it in terms of… you mentioned that analogy in terms of time, something that happened ten years ago, but time and space are kind of in the way the same thing.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: So somebody in Africa who is distanced from me in space who’s starving or who has AIDS or whatever the issue might be, it’s a mistake also to say that’s not a part of me.

KRIS: That is correct.

MARK: Could you define psychic trauma?

KRIS: Any traumatic event that is almost more than the individual can deal with at its onset will be submerged. It is a matter of survival at that moment therefore it is buried in the psyche: the subconscious. There are many individuals who often have no recall even of some of the traumas they experienced whilst others in the same family for instance, are well aware and the reason may very well be that the individual who has forgotten has sought a protection mechanism. We are aware that many metaphysically slanted individuals will claim that is because the event never happened to that person. That would also be somewhat foolish to claim that simply because one does not remember does not mean it never happened. When the individual feels safe enough, he or she may indeed begin the process of healing. Do you follow?

MARK: Yes I do, and it’s overwhelming how much psychic trauma we are facing in this day and age as individuals and collectively.

KRIS: Now some would argue that that is only a matter of belief and you can wish it away. However were they – these individuals able to look at the world though as beautiful a place as it is it can also be filled with great saddening atmospheres. Atmospheres we must travel through at times.

JOHN: Yes as a matter of fact, Mark, your uh, I mean I absolutely hear what you say that the world is expressing a great deal of trauma right now but in a way you could think of that as a healthy sign, though.

MARK: I agree.

KRIS: That is correct.

JOHN: It’s not buried anymore

KRIS: Consider this then; have any of you ever had a boil?

JOHN: Oh yeah, sure.

KRIS: You do remember that initially it appears as a little more than a small pimple but within a very short amount of time, it is possibly the most excruciating pain you have ever endured. Something very deep within the body is working its way out and even if it will kill you in the process the body will get it out and it literally bores its way right through your flesh to expel it. You know on the one hand that the body is ejecting something that can no longer be contained within it.

JOHN: Nice way to put it.

KRIS: And at the same time it is not necessarily the most pleasant of endeavors but you understand, correct?

JOHN: Yeah, it’s a cleansing process, ultimately.

KRIS: Correct. The similar happens when someone decides to detoxify their body whether with herbs or natural products of one kind or another, juice fasting, fasting etcetera. The body will begin to expel that which no longer needs to be within it to a certain degree, correct?

JOHN: Absolutely.

KRIS: Thus there may even come a time where what is referred to as a healing trauma or crisis.

JOHN: Yes, actually I don’t know why I’m prompted to say this, but I remember reading years ago in a health food – this may be completely apocryphal and made up – but this person who had been on serious fasts for a number of years to purify their body was walking in the woods one day and they were overcome with absolutely crippling abdominal cramps they managed to get their pants of and had a bare in the woods kind of a moment and they swear that they passed about a teaspoon of mercury.

KRIS: It is not unheard of. The question is did they use Charmin?

(Laughter)

KRIS: Or that kitty brand. It is not unheard of given half a chance your physical bodies are wonderful conscious awarenesses and will repair itself. Please feel free to continue.

MARK: Actually Kris, it’s probably our last call for a break if we’re going to have one.

KRIS: Indeed then. Please do have a break.

JOHN: Thank you, Kris.

(Five minute musical interlude)

MARK: We’re back!

JOHN: Okay well this is a very interesting topic isn’t it Mark?

MARK: Oh, extremely but we need it. I think this is an area that we needed to touch upon. We needed to push that envelope continuously.

KRIS: Indeed. We trust it is not too controversial. Basically toxins of one kind or another are found either in your physical form or in the environment because you have buried or denied your own pains, your own traumas and as we have suggested before: the source of all illnesses or well-being is in the mind. When you do not release or properly deal with your own traumas and pains and heartaches, your own angers and so on and so forth you create situations both within your body as well as in the so-called environment which is an extension of your being, that generate the right conditions in terms of inside your physical form the right conditions that would invite the proliferation of bacteria, germs, parasites overgrowth of cellular structures or all of the above malfunctions and break downs in the proper functioning of organs and systems and that is also manifested in the environment that you know as physical reality. That includes manufactured toxins, poisons and chemicals of one kind or another. Toxins and poisons from nuclear warheads, combat and so on and so forth though some individuals may indeed stick their heads in the sand does not necessarily make these things go away. All of your lives need to be properly nurtured, cherished, caressed, loved and filled with a grace and sacred perspective. What is the best indicator of happiness? Do keep in mind we are still within our topic for the year.

MARK: Meaningfulness.

KRIS: Indeed. That your lives have meaning when you are unhappy with your lives you may very well then be out of touch with the meaning of your life, with meaningfulness.

JOHN: Actually, just slightly out of left field topic here, Kris, but I have added something to my set-up phrases in EFT which I just gotta run past you on that very point. I’m sure you’re aware of the normal EFT set-up.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: “Even though I have a pain in my foot, I deeply and completely accept myself.” What I have added is “even though I have a pain in my foot, I understand that I’m creating that pain, that it’s meaningful and I deeply and completely accept myself.” That has been feeling pretty good for me.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: It’s often helpful to consider whatever it is and to say okay – right in the middle of the set-up – say okay, this pain is meaningful. I may not understand the meaning, but I’m sure there is meaning there.

KRIS: Indeed. There always is, simply because as we stated before, you are meaningful beings and you have your being within a meaningful universe. The meaning of your life, which is your being, gives meaning to the universe. Without you, the universe has no meaning, because there is no universe. You are the universe. In Sanskrit literature, specifically in the Bhagavad-Gita which is considered the most ancient holy book, there is a discussion between the God Krishna and His friend and devotee Arjuna and at one point the God reveals His universal form meaning that the Being is the entire universe therefore the universe, each one of you experiences, is the farthest reachings of your understandings about yourselves. Do you follow?

JOHN: Yeah, that’s an exhilarating thought.

KRIS: Indeed. And still it is only an interpretation or translation within the specific context of time-space between dualism and non-dualism. That is one of your forms, yet only one of them. Within that former: unlimited numbers of forms as well, your physical expression, another one of them.

JOHN: You know it’s a good thing they never have to do a census of all the universes because that may take some time.

KRIS: How do you know it has not been done?

(Laughing)

MARK: Kris, if I could comment, over the last week or so I’ve been, as you know, experiencing difficulty with an individual that I’ll just term as “the bully” and this morning on my way to work, I had a little conversation with the nine sisters, with the universe and Phillip, and we were discussing the situation and asking questions and I was getting answers and it came down to this bully bullying me, that “do you believe yourself to be meaningful, having meaningful life?” And I answered “yes, I do believe that.” And then the question turned to “well what about this other individual? Is his life meaningful? Is there validity? His being, his expression, his emotions and his feelings” and I had to stop and think and agree of course that “yes”, and the other is you came up.

KRIS: Indeed. And are you ready to take this to the next level?

MARK: I hope so.

KRIS: The next level is: how have you fared at dealing with you being bullied in the past? You have not yet released resentments and angers towards that situation or those situations from your past of being bullied. Therefore it will still show up in your environment. It is not a matter of whether you believe in bullying or not. That would be almost a child-like observation. A more mature observation is how have you dealt with you being the subject of bullying in your youth?

MARK: Well I’ve buried it of course.

KRIS: Indeed. Therefore it will try to make a comeback so that you can release the anger and the resentment. Releasing it does not mean you take it from the cupboard and shove it in the garbage.

MARK: I take it doesn’t mean tracking these people down and beating them up either.

KRIS: No. It does mean to bring it to the surface of your conscious mind with gentleness, with caring, COMPASSION, loving attitude and COMPASSION and great care and did we include COMPASSION in there? If one cannot have compassion toward Self, then you will not have it towards others. Therefore there are many different tools that you can utilize to bring this to the surface. It does not need involving trauma again, but it does need to involve an acknowledgement that this exists that you can gently, lovingly care for yourself in this way as well as the one who apparently perpetrated this situation that you acquiesced to deal with and release not only the apparent bully but also recognize that you harbored not only anger and resentment towards the bully but towards yourself as well. Do you remember that conversation over a year ago?

MARK: Yes, very much so.

KRIS: Indeed then. Revisit it and take it to heart.

MARK: Thank you.

KRIS: And we will know if you bury it again.

MARK: Oh, I know, cause it will come back.

KRIS: Indeed, you have a comment or observation? Or perhaps what is the time?

JOHN: It’s about 12, 14 minutes after eight.

KRIS: If you desire, you may invite someone to call if you know how to work the system. Other than that, please continue.

JOHN: Yeah, well why don’t we open the lines to anybody who wants to call, Mark you can see the phone number better than I can.

(Mark announces the phone number and explains the phone etiquette)

JOHN: Now while we’re waiting, Kris, I’d like to just run a question past you. The other night I was reading some of the early Seth material and I came across something that struck me, that kind of answered a question I’ve been having for a little while and he suggested that the ego that is me, John, is actually the same ego as incarnated perhaps many, many times, and that that is why some of the issues I’m dealing with are not necessarily from this lifetime, but are from other lifetimes as well. Does that make sense?

KRIS: Yes. It makes sense in that the ego per se is not limited to just that one focal expression or expression of Essence. It is a much broader and wider subject altogether. It is itself an extension of the Inner Self, of Essence. Thus it would necessarily participate in many focal expressions at once.

JOHN: Wow. You see that really expands my understanding. I thought the ego was just having to do with the focal.

KRIS: It does, but not in the way you think. It is not like a pimple.

(Laughter)

MARK: I should hope not.

JOHN: Or a boil, heaven forbid!

KRIS: That is why you simply cannot kill the ego, it will simply reconfigure.

JOHN: So for instance, let’s say I have a thousand incarnations all simultaneous, is there one ego working?

KRIS: There is one Inner Self each…

MARK: And various expressions.

KRIS: There is one Inner Self that projects, or one Essence that projects through one thousand expressions. As a result of that, each expression cultivates its own interpretation or notion about itself and its reality. Thus you have an individualized, localized aspect that you call the ego, but it is not solely particular to the one incarnation, only its projection into the time-space continuum that results from the presence of the one expression of Essence. Does that make some sense to you?

You have five fingers. You can say four fingers and a thumb – irrelevant. Now, each finger of course is somewhat individual yet they are extensions of the hand. The hand is an extension of the arm. Each finger can sense on its own, correct?

JOHN: Right.

KRIS: And you can say then that each finger is an analogy for as expression of Essence but it still taps into the hand, the Essence. Does that make a little more sense? Thus as a result each finger could be considered a projection of the hand and each finger has its own apparent ego, but they’re all tied into the hand.

JOHN: So what is it that’s unique about this particular expression if it isn’t the ego? I thought it was the ego. Is it the body or?

KRIS: The individuality.

(Phone rings)

JOHN: Oh I think we’ve got a call.

KRIS: What is unique is the individuality?

JOHN: Oh, I see.

KRIS: Please deal with your call.

JOHN: Alright.

MARK: Hello caller.

CALLER: Hi! How are you?

MARK: Good, thank you.

CALLER: Are we on the line?

MARK: Yes you are.

CALLER: What are you talking about?

(Laughing)

MARK: You haven’t been listening?

CALLER: Sorry. I was just, I was on a whim and I wanted to talk about the environment.

JOHN: Well you’re right on, that’s what we’ve been talking about in part.

CALLER: Cool! Well my name’s Lavarius and I’m going to be at the environmental film festival on June 1st and I got a film called ‘xxxxxxxx’

MARK: Go ahead.

CALLER: I got a show out on May 24th at the Show gallery on Queen, here in Toronto called ‘xxxxxx xxxxx”

JOHN: That sounds great. Do you have any particular question for Kris? Do you understand who Kris is?

CALLER: No. I don’t. I’m sorry, I’m an artist, I just tuned in…

JOHN: No, I understand. An artist. We will certainly make allowances for being the artistic temperament.

CALLER: Oh, thank you.

JOHN: But Kris is a non-physically focused personality who’s speaking through Serge here in the same way as Seth spoke through Jane Roberts. Are you familiar with Seth?

CALLER: Well to tell you the truth I have Lavarius speaking through me.

JOHN: Oh there you go, okay.

CALLER: And I’m just another entity. Another friend of mine is a multi-personality person and she deals with her problems by talking to her many others.

JOHN: Well that sounds very good. Now it is kind of a phone-in question show so did you have a question?

CALLER: Yeah, I would like to know if we’re talking about the environment, what would Kris have to say that He has done for the environment lately?

(Laughing)

MARK: Kris is non-physical.

KRIS: We do not leave anything behind.

(More laughter)

KRIS: However, in another manner we make a humble attempt to bring awareness about the state of the individual’s psychological environment which will affect the physical environment.

CALLER: Physiology. We’re talking about physiology now. I agree. Where’s Maslow’s Law? Do we have any primary needs?

KRIS: You do as a species. First and foremost primary need of all things is an environment where you can be safe and loving.

CALLER: Yeah, but we gotta have water.

KRIS: These are secondary. The environment from out perspective, the environment is a creation that allows you to live safely and lovingly.

CALLER: But the environment, is what you’re saying or describing is organic.

KRIS: Indeed, it is an organic manifestation of psychological or non-physical parameters and paradigms. The reality exists first in the mind and secondly in the environment.

CALLER: And it is an orgasm that brings us to this reality.

KRIS: Only in physical terms.

CALLER: Physiology is the basic need in the hierarchy of Maslow’s Law which is water, food, sleep and elimination and if we don’t have a good dump every morning, what good are we?

(Laughter)

JOHN: Well you know it’s interesting, caller that you mention having a good dump because that resonates with something I was talking about earlier. Now, I’m going to ask you if you can maybe leave the phones open for maybe another caller, but that you very much for your call.

CALLER: Okay.

MARK: That was interesting.

KRIS: Now what is the time?

MARK: We’ve got five minutes left.

KRIS: Indeed. Any other observations or comment or callers?

MARK: I totally lost my train of thought.

KRIS: Then perhaps the dead air will revive it.

JOHN: Oh yes, we were talking about how Essence has…well, I’m still getting my head around the ego, how it’s..

MARK: Oh, I’m sorry John I did want to comment, I did have a question based upon this: ego death. There’s really no such thing as death so…

KRIS: Indeed not. An ego death on its own also is impossible. However, the trauma incurred to the entire personality on this fear of potential annihilation itself may have very long lasting repercussions in this way. In normal terms, and it has to be dealt with, and there are ways to truly accelerate the healing and nurturing to return to a recovered state and that does involve and must include loving and caring nurturing. Much compassion.

JOHN: And appreciation.

KRIS: Indeed.

MARK: And compassion.

(Laughter)

KRIS: Compassion actually does come from an appreciation of self and others as self.

JOHN: Actually that’s interesting because I was looking up compassion, just for fun in the Elias materials and His definition of compassion is understanding combined with appreciation.

KRIS: Indeed, it is mature. And that is our wish were we to have wishes, is that all of you, your entire race eventually mature to a compassionate and appreciative state.

JOHN: Amen.

KRIS: And with that we believe it is time to wish you good evening and compassion-filled dreams.

JOHN: Thank you, Kris.

MARK: Thank you very much, Kris. So in retrospect there for our artist friend, caller, if you’d like to get a little bit of insight what this show is about or what Kris is about, you can go to www.krischronicles.com and all the transcripts and previous radio shows are there. And with that I would like to wish everybody a very pleasant evening.

KRIS: Indeed it would suit caller to investigate the actual nature of physical reality above and beyond marketing.

Beliefs, Choices and Behaviors

March 18, 2007

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois and Transcribed by Ellen Gilbert (Kwaa’Ji)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on March 18, 2007

Roll Call:

Toronto: Serge (Joseph), Mark (Philip), John (Sohars)

Delaware: Ellen (Kwaa’Ji), Brian (El-Don)

Oregon: Lisa (Lauramar),

New Jersey: Ella (Lazuli)

Hawaii: Tom (Desire)

(7:46 PM)

KRIS: Now we trust that you are comfortable and we thank you for your consideration.

MARK: Thank you, Kris.

KRIS: As our theme for the year, the Year of Meaningfulness, continues to expand, we would like to mix the evening with some dissertation as well as some very nice personal exchanges, thus if you would be so kind as to open the telephone lines.

MARK: The lines are open.

KRIS: Therefore, this is an evening where you can also participate. In the meantime, whilst you gather about yourselves some questions, we would like to ask you, any of you, what you think and understand concerning beliefs.

MARK: Beliefs are particular thoughts or ideas that we give energy to, that we focus upon.

KRIS: Would others agree and add to that?

ELLA: I would also add that they are more or less stable patterns of thinking. They are not individual thoughts but patterns of thinking, and they also act as a filter in our perceptions of objective reality.

KRIS: Indeed. Please feel free to continue. Anyone else?

BRIAN: They are also the blueprints of this physical reality, which we give energy to.

KRIS: At the consensus level, yes.

JOHN: And there are also, distinct from that, acquired beliefs that may contradict blueprint beliefs.

KRIS: Indeed.

ELLEN: They’re often given to us from society or others, parents, teachers and whatnot, and simply accepted without question.

KRIS: These are just sets of acquired beliefs, correct.

TOM: They tend to group together, the pieces of beliefs and form a network. There are bridge beliefs, there are root beliefs, and they all kind of work together supporting the central premise and work together to form our reality.

KRIS: Indeed, you can have what we would simply call cluster beliefs, various similar beliefs that group together because of their energy, and you may have clusters of smaller acquired beliefs, literally becoming satellite to larger sets of beliefs that altogether function as patterns. Please feel free to continue.

ELLA: I’m not sure at this point, if one can ask a question now concerning beliefs, or what?

KRIS: Ask the question and we will see!

ELLA: Okay. My question is: we just discussed beliefs as we see them within our physical reality. Do Essences also function within some certain realm of beliefs, possibly within the blueprints of that environment?

KRIS: Without straying too far from the topic, we have our own equivalent of blueprints that give particular form and shape to our chosen state of perception. These types of blueprints are far more fluid than your own. We hope that suffices for the time being.

MARK: John, you have something?

JOHN: Oh yeah…beliefs are essentially neutral, and they’re not good or bad, they’re neutral.

KRIS: In that respect that is also correct.

MARK: I was going to say that they are tools which we utilize to express ourselves to narrow the expression down to a particular set or experiment.

KRIS: In terms of blueprints, yes, though you also have to contend with acquired beliefs that as individuals you all accept at various stages and states of your own evolving life, depending on particular moments. Because beliefs as such are not part of your education, the nature of reality is not part of your educational systems, then you are unschooled as it were, in releasing unique sets of beliefs, thus they can continue to exert an influence.

And the point we wish to make here with this is that there are many individuals who come from Judeo-Christian or other backgrounds and do not necessarily investigate the acquired beliefs from their own lives, as it were, and may encounter varying progressions of oppositions to their desired realities and take it to mean that beliefs as such are the enemy, are the cause of the resistances or the un-manifestation of their desires and feel that they need to then weed out, remove or eliminate, slash and burn, and hate unleashed within their own subjectivity which can lead to other SERIES of conflicts and difficult challenges.

It is our hope this evening to simply present a slightly different angle on this issue that may make the ride smoother, even for yourselves as seasoned individual creators. As was pointed out, beliefs are not the cause of your heebie-jeebies in any way, shape, or form. They are not some kind of psychological sin that you must feel burdened with, but they do contain energy, energy that you have injected into these particular sets of thoughts and thought patterns, giving these particular thoughts a greater importance than necessary in many instances.

Not that this does not serve a purpose, for those beliefs that you have chosen to inject or assign more importance than others may indeed at one time or another have served a great purpose, but without recognizing that you have kept your investment of energy in those thoughts or thought patterns, then these beliefs or convictions continue to exert a type of influence. And that is our main point: is that these, whatever these beliefs or convictions are they do not force you. They do not impose behavior upon anyone. You are not destined or fated to follow the dictates of your beliefs or convictions. Some time ago, we devoted some sessions on the Power of your Choice. Do you recall?

(Yes)

Thus we bring this back into the discussion, because if you perceive an influence, does it mean that you are obliged to follow suit or are you able to recognize that an influence simply offers you a choice or a variety of choices of behavior, both mental, psychological, and physio-biological?

We believe this is a very valid line of questioning. If you do take the time to consider that your convictions or influences merely offer you a variety of choices in actions, would this not imply then, that the ultimate decision rests upon the choices that you make?

Thus we perceive that it may all around benefit you to begin considering that these things you hold as beliefs or convictions are little more than influences that do not necessarily demand or force or command you to behave mentally, physically or otherwise in any way, but that indeed the decision, the choice that you make is therefore the determining factor [and] that you are then not a victim of your beliefs or convictions at all, but truly the caretaker of the influences that you organize so psychologically.

And would this not also return that much more empowerment to you, knowing that you are not in any way, shape or form forced to behave as you do?

You are not genetically or socially programmed to behave in a certain manner as if by instinct, but instead you have the ability to choose, and even choosing NOT to choose is also a choice. Therefore we put this to you this evening in as humble and gentle a manner as possible, perhaps assisting you in seeing something different, another perspective yet from which you navigate the oceans of life. Does this make sense to you?

(Yes)

JOHN: May I inquire, Kris?

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: This comes up when I talk to people, often. Beliefs can be tricky. What if a person has a belief that they don’t have a choice?

KRIS: Indeed. That is acquired, first off. Second, you may gently guide or nudge them into observing that they DO have choice. They can choose to have brown or white toast. One or two lumps in their coffee. They can choose to leave the house in five or ten minutes.

JOHN: Okay, so there’s always some kind of choice.

KRIS: That is correct.

ELLA: May I add to that? What I want to say is that it seems to be from the material you presented before that in this exact circumstance that John has just described and you commented on, if the person feels sort of stuck with no choice, they can begin with small actions, but deliberately, like saying “I will do something different, not what was predestined to me, I will leave in ten minutes, rather than five. I will cook fish instead of meat.” Even that somehow opens up new opportunities, is that correct?

KRIS: That is correct. Most individuals may simply lump everything together in one or two sentences. How many times have you all heard someone say, “EVERYTHING in my life is ALWAYS screwed up!”

(Group laughter)

And yet it may happen occasionally, but to emphasize their frustration, they may simply mention that EVERYTHING in their life is always screwed up. Once you begin to dismantle this perception, they can easily admit, “Well, not everything, but many things,” and once you begin to gently dismantle THIS perception, they will admit that there are occasions when they feel frustrated, but the frustration is not necessarily the result of anything imposed upon them by outside agencies or individuals, but rather from what they believe are their own shortcomings.

And once this is properly understood, they may actually recognize very clearly and conscientiously that they DO have many choices in life, but they might be afraid to go in that direction, thus fight themselves and their own energies every which way.

This is why we expanded as we are now doing this evening, simply to demonstrate that yet again, a different perspective can be employed and this too can greatly defuse the notion that you truly are unable to do anything about your beliefs or convictions, specifically because we mentioned a short time ago as well that a surefire method of beginning to defuse or negate the energetic charge of a belief or conviction is to alter or modify the behavior that is resultant from those sets of ideas, because they are a choice, too.

And when you begin to recognize this, you can take your choices back into your own hands, as it were, thus recover whole new layers of what it means to empower yourselves. Does this make sense?

(Yes)

Consider for a moment, that you may be one of these individuals who reads the horoscope in the paper before you do anything in the day and it may say today, with your horoscope, that this may not be a good day to get out of bed, that if you step out of the door, there is a likelihood that you will suffer some kind of injury, perhaps you will fall and hurt yourself, you will be brought to have an accident, something will go wrong at work.

Would any of you here this evening say that “Absolutely this horoscope must be obeyed in every way if we wish to live another day!” or would you tend to think that this is merely a perspective of life, an influence among many others, and that you can choose something entirely different?

JOHN: Oh, yeah, for sure, Kris. If that happened to me, I’d go and get another paper and see what the other horoscope was!

(Laughter)

KRIS: And you might find that bathroom tissue has no horoscope on it!

(Group cracks up laughing)

Simply to bring home the point that all of these things are influences. It is said that on the full moon, people get a little crazier. Is that necessarily the case, or are the individuals who behave in a manner different than their own norm may have chosen to do so because they are, consciously or unconsciously, aware of the convictions surrounding the full moon?

JOHN: So, if I may, Kris, just to leap forward conceptually….from what you’re saying, it sounds as though it doesn’t really matter what we believe as long as we reserve our ability to make choices.

KRIS: The bottom line is that this is correct. Some individuals may choose to believe something entirely different, completely opposed to YOUR beliefs and they will utilize this to set up their own perceptions of life and function within those parameters and the tensions between their opposing and allowing within that context, within the ranges of influences, as it were. Does this mean, however, that you can believe that the moon is made of cheese, and will the moon necessarily be so?

JOHN: Mmmm…no.

KRIS: Correct.

ELLA: Well, I would say some would choose to believe the moon is made of cheese, then that is their choice, at least at this moment.

KRIS: That is correct. It is their choice to believe so because it fits in with their stated world view. They have specific reasons to choose those beliefs and it may be that the reality that the moon is NOT made of cheese may be a little too difficult to deal with. Thus they will stay within their acquired beliefs. And of course, you do understand that the “moon is made of cheese” beliefs are allegorical.

ELLA: I understand, right, but I’m just saying that anyone who remains within their belief system for a reason whether the reason is beneficial to them or not, that’s still their choice.

KRIS: That is correct, and they may, as individuals are prone to grow and mature, leaving different stages of their life behind, may still continue to carry that baggage into adolescence, young adulthood, middle age and more mature ages and still see that somehow or other, they are boxed in by these influences because they have not yet discovered that they have choice, that they can choose something else entirely to concentrate upon.

You here this evening have been reading much material, listening to ourselves and others and to your advantage, you can demonstrate to others throughout your lives that you are, with your ability to choose, you are the prime factor in your existence. You are not considered, then, a puppet of your beliefs. You are not a victim of your convictions. You are not a mindless automaton of convictions that run you to the ground. Do you understand?

(Yes)

Thus if you take a moment, whether you close your eyes or not is irrelevant, if you take a moment and consider that all of the events and circumstances of your entire life have always been influences and that it is YOU who have chosen to act in accordance with the influences themselves and sometimes NOT to act upon those influences as another matter of choice.

But that ability to choose may even have been unknown to you and that right now in this moment you are giving yourselves the greatest of all gifts: The POWER, the magical power to recognize that you have always been the one to choose how and what you do in your life regardless of influence. And even if you were not aware of this powerful gift in the past, you are now, henceforth in this moment and forevermore aware of this great power to choose. What do you feel about yourself and your life as a result?

BRIAN: Empowered.

KRIS: Do not be too quick to jump in with answers. It may be trickier, but yes, this is an immediate benefit.

ELLA: I don’t know if it’s too quick or not, but there is a sense of inner peace that comes with that, a sort of sense of quiet balance….I’m not sure how to describe it otherwise.

KRIS: Very nice. It might even be slightly frightening to know that this is a matter of choice, and at the same time it may produce a quiet sense of elation, a gentle exuberance in knowing this, until it begins to trickle into the deeper layers of your awareness.

BRIAN: Kris, how about the appreciation of self? By appreciating self and also looking at it from the point of perspective of Atman, the dualistic and non-dualistic? I mean the tools you just gave us recently, and Brahm on the radio show of appreciating self, is a choice, and it’s a very, very empowering choice which could also defuse a lot of limiting beliefs about Seth…about self.

KRIS: That is very nice of you to recognize this and we do trust that this was a small Freudian slip?

(Group laughter)

BRIAN: I said “Seth” [by mistake]!

KRIS: Or some might say, “A small ‘Sethian’ slip”!

(More laughter)

BRIAN: Well, I have been reading a lot lately!

[Brian has been reading Jane Roberts' Seth: Dreams and Projections of Consciousness and he had looked up a particular passage in my copy of Seth Speaks prior to the beginning of the session tonight.]

KRIS: That is fine, but yes, you are correct. This can be considered another degree of appreciation for the power that you hold. Now what is the time?

MARK: 8:24.

KRIS: Perhaps we will simply have a small break and you can choose to choose whatever you choose during the break!

(Break begins)

BRIAN: (To Ellen) I didn’t mean to say “Seth,” I slipped on that one.

ELLEN: (Teasing) YOU had to pull out “Seth Speaks,” didn’t you?

BRIAN: (Sheepishly) It’s right here on the table…..Hey, Mark, John, ever since you did the last radio show and Brahm did the [exercise] hand over heart with the “I appreciate myself,” with all the tools and the practices in perspective….these are all choices we’ve made to change our lives, even with the Atman….so the trickle down effect would be…in appreciation of self, you actually almost RID yourself of a lot limiting beliefs because you believe in YOURSELF and the choices you make towards happiness, towards growth, towards exploration….

So how….like you said, Mark, how would you describe Essence. [Mark recently started a thread on Newworldview.com titled "What is Essence?" asking participants to define and describe Essence] Well, how would you describe the change in yourself to others who say, “Wow! You’ve changed!” Well, I believe in myself, I appreciate myself…all choices! They can make them too!

ELLA: A good point, Brian.

JOHN: Very true!

MARK: (Noting Kris’ return) He’s back!

KRIS: And as you have so kindly and diligently pointed out, this is a prime example that what we offer throughout these sessions and others are not necessarily what we command any of you to do, nor do we force any of this upon you. These are OUR influences and you make the choice to apply them or not as a prime example of what we speak about. Does this make sense to you?

(Yes)

Indeed, and we only expect ONE thing alone from any and all of you, is that IF you choose to act upon and apply any one, or many influences that we offer in any way, is that you live up to the potentials within yourselves and nothing less. Now, you may continue your break.

(Kris withdraws)

BRIAN: I’ve done it again!

(Group cracks up)

ELLA: (Amused) Brian!

BRIAN: I always bring him back. I truly am incorrigible!

ELLEN: Go sit in the corner!

(Break continues with some discussion of the benefits of using EFT and self-appreciation techniques. Kris returns at 8:37 PM)

KRIS: Now then, in keeping with the subject of influences, perhaps you might like to explore the subject matter on your own in a unique fashion. The next time you find yourselves downtown, on some busy street or intersection, take a look around you at the people milling about, going here, there, everywhere, each focused upon his or her destination of the moment, and very gently allow your minds to open and wonder at the influences, the unseen influences, that are motivating these individuals milling about in every which direction, each on their own agenda.

And in opening your minds to this line of inquiry, reflect upon your own influences motivating you upon your own destination. And by destination we do not necessarily mean merely wanting to cross the street, but those issues that you are dealing with, going about daily life as it were. Perhaps you might even try to sense those many influences this one is choosing, including yourselves, much like your moon influences a gravitational pull on the oceans, at high and low tide.

What kinds of influences are being exerted through the choices all of these individuals make? Whether they are aware that they are choosing or not is irrelevant, they are still choosing. And what kind of choices are YOU focusing upon, whether you are aware of doing this or not? Look about you, this time not only at the people or other human beings milling about, to and fro, choosing their influences consciously or subconsciously, but also look about the environment.

Perhaps if you are downtown you will see commercial buildings of many kinds, perhaps even skyscrapers, perhaps some homes, or if you are in the suburbs, there are homes, vehicles, all manners of manifestations of energy and forms, for these too are the results of choices acted upon by influences. The human constructions are the direct result of the faculties of creativity.

What about the environment itself? The trees, the earth, the water, the sky, the clouds, the wind, the mountains, the valleys? These are also the result of choices from influences, but at a much deeper layer of selfhood. They are aspects of your own energies manifested in this manner and also the result of another kind of choice.

And look about for a few moments at anything and everything you can, sensing the vibrant energies that are behind those choices. The choices based upon the vibrant energies of influences, and so on and so forth. And as you grok this more and more, also pay attention to your own choices which are, as with others, the result of plays upon a variety of influences.

And the great tide of human experience itself is based upon whole sets of choices, picking which influence will be responded to and enacted or acted upon. And after a moment or two of observing in this way, come back to your own regular stream of thoughts and experiences and go about your day. But we are certain that, at least a portion of your day will have been altered in a positive, constructive and powerful manner. Would you agree?

(Yes)

ELLA: Honestly? I have no clue. It feels good, but I am not sure if I would alter my day because of that. It puts me in a very meditative mood that much I know.

KRIS: Indeed. If you notice, you might even feel your mood as elevated somewhat.

ELLA: Yes. It becomes very peaceful, as I said the theme right now is that inner balance of peace that comes from this meditative exercise and moods.

KRIS: Now are there questions?

ELLA: I actually wanted to comment on…I guess the whole topic of this discussion, and give a little bit of my own perspective on what I understood until recently. What I wanted to say is I guess I held a belief that being given that information, sort of being a student in a school implies that one has a some deficiency in a way that one doesn’t have enough information, therefore by acquiring information one has to become somebody else, because what you are now is not enough, you are not smart enough, you need to learn, you need to do the exercises and that was overwhelming me at times.

Just recently I realized that what you have given us, it’s not necessarily that I have to become somebody else, and I don’t need to jump through the hoops, but by growing this way, I can come back to myself and appreciate myself as I already am, because there’s nothing wrong with me to begin with. It’s not that I’m deficient in any way. I just need to come back and realize that. That seems to be what I’m inquiring lately.

KRIS: Indeed. Very nice observation.

ELLA: And I am very grateful to you for what you are doing and the opportunity to be in this group whether often or rarely, but also the fact…..I’d like to ask you, and I think a simple yes or no would suffice….but the fact that I feel less inclined to read or listen to that material…for awhile it bothered me a lot, but I realized it allowed me to be within my own preferences in this day and time and understanding that I am within my choices and I can change them as I want. So there is some kind of a comfort zone, even though I may remove myself at some times. Is that what is happening?

KRIS: You may discover that you go or function in cycles, per se. There are periods when you may read and then feel disinclined to do so because then you are in processing mode. Later on you may go back to reading and then process again.

ELLA: There are always inspirations and there are always little A-Ha! moments, whether I read or not, but it almost feels, when I don’t read, then it almost feels like I discover it completely on my own.

KRIS: Correct. This is what we referred to moments ago about our ONLY expectation of yourself or anyone else is that you discover and apply your own potential. Our words, our exercises, our sharing, our avatars, are merely to influence the discoveries that YOU make within your lovely being.

ELLA: Thank you.

KRIS: Are there other inquiries or questions or comments?

ELLEN: I have a comment. There are two things, this might be kind of tangential, I’m not sure, maybe a little off-target, but there are two things that I was thinking about as you were going through your presentation. And one was what Seth always said, which was “the point of power is in the present,” and also how beliefs lead to patterns of behavior.

And I was thinking about…in trying to get to the bottom of certain symptoms that have lasted over many years and trying to uncover the beliefs that started these symptoms goes way back into childhood, and there were times when I was getting almost overwhelmed at the prospect of trying to dig out all those root beliefs that led to the….or were the genesis of the patterns of behavior that arose and that continue to this day.

And I went to get my notebook because I had written down something that I had gotten in a Bardo state, and it was these words: “It doesn’t matter if you ever discover the original stimulus way back in your past that gave rise to your symptoms. If you can recognize the patterns that you obey now, then it is the same. The patterns that cause an illness’ symptoms to occur are the same right now as they were in the past, so if you pay attention to them in the Now, and address them in the Now, you address them in the past concurrently.”

Or in other words, I don’t need to dwell on what caused me to first create my particular symptoms. I’ve seen a few of the original stimuli that began in childhood, but I don’t have to explore that ad nauseum because it’s more important to recognize the patterns that I am perpetuating. And they all arose out of a certain root belief structure.

KRIS: Indeed, it may at times be a very tricky balancing act to take all of these things into effect. However, the assumption IS correct, as we have pointed out a few times already, that an excellent means of modifying beliefs or convictions is to modify or completely alter the behavior.

Recognizing the behavior, perhaps understanding that it is no longer desired, can lead to its modification, the negation of its influences, all done within the present moment. That sphere of influence, the moment, the Now, knows no boundaries and is not prevented in any way, shape or form, from reaching its cause, its root. It will do so from Now. Correct?

ELLEN: That…Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up! That’s what I was pretty much getting out of those words. I don’t have to go into long Freudian analysis to try and uncover — (Laughing)

KRIS: There may be situations with other people where this might be necessary. Each situation is different. Do you understand?

ELLEN: Yeah. So it CAN be helpful, in other words, to dig down into the past, for some people.

KRIS: For some, depending on the situation. It has to be held within its own context. But still the quote unquote “cure” is held within the present experience.

MARK: I’m really beginning to understand the importance of behavior and behavior modification. In a way that’s what we’ve been talking about constantly here: beliefs, influences and choices that all affect the BEHAVIOR that produces a result that may be or may not be desired. And by changing the BEHAVIOR, whether you will ultimately change the belief, whether you realize it or not, so much of those outcomes are dependent on that behavior.

KRIS: Indeed and as you recognize the undesirable behavior and alter it, very often the root cause will make itself known. It will reveal itself because it may not necessarily find it very appealing that you are no longer playing the game, as it were. Do you follow?

MARK: Yes.

KRIS: Thus it may offer some opposing. When you are recognizing this then it becomes even easier to settle the issue.

MARK: Yes, I follow.

BRIAN: Kris, how about this: when you recognize these behaviors but from a different perspective you realize they are not who and what you really are, that these are experiences and explorations in physical reality, but they are not you, even though they are part of you, but they’re not who you are since we’re multi-dimensional beings.

ELLA: But that would help you to modify it possibly, right Brian?

BRIAN: You modify it from a different perspective of it, you know, using the Atman perspective.

KRIS: There are definitely many different perspectives that can be applied here. Do understand, however, that if you undertake to modify or alter undesirable behavior, thus negating the influence itself, it is in your best interests to begin applying, DELIBERATELY APPLYING, a new influence.

BRIAN: I think that influence would be appreciating self.

KRIS: That is part of the process indeed.

MARK: How many times in New Age circles have we come across people, either individuals or groups that want to manifest something in their reality, that want to manifest change, but don’t want to change their behavior?

BRIAN: True!

MARK: And where do they get? Nowhere.

KRIS: Not only in New Age circles, but you will find this in almost every area of modern life. And an individual may, for instance, have several health challenges, but will insist that the only thing they will be able to deal with is one pill. Do not ask them to change their eating habits, their thought patterns, or anything about their lives at all, but just give them something to counter the effects of their health.

This of course does not bring any realistic solution. Once you begin to alter and negate patterns of behavior, meaning that you are modifying influences, it is, again, to your best interest, to bring about a new influence, create a new influence and you can do this through some appreciation techniques, but do understand the purpose of YOUR creating a new influence.

Influences, do pardon the pun, but influence who and what you are at this layer of existence. That is why you have them, why you use them. Thus it is to your greatest benefit to instill new influences that are advantageous and desirable. And once you understand the potential of this kind of energy work, your own personal empowerment definitely increases.

Thus for instance, you may have recognized the influences that may say, “You always end up spoiling everything! You always mess things up! You are never able to do anything right!” Then begin to create and project influences and see the effects that you can then choose from these and they will be potent. They will be AS potent as anything you are leaving behind. Remember, your moon, for instance, does influence the tides. Do you follow?

(Yes)

So consider that the influences you instill in your own psyche are very much like the moon, cheesy or not, and they influence tides of behavior. Now what is the time?

MARK: 9:03.

KRIS: Then indeed, we suggest ending our lovely discussion and we thank each and every one of you for the wonderful influences that you permit yourselves.

ALL: Thank you, Kris.

(Session ends)

Kris Radio: The Need to be Appreciated

March 9, 2007

Brahm: The Need to be Appreciated
Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois and Transcribed by Lisa Q. Pratt (Lauromar)

Recorded in Toronto, Canada on March 09, 2007

JOHN: And here we go, my name is Johnny.

MARK: I’m your co-host Mark Bukator.

JOHN: And I’m John Hawkins and very happy to be here on a March the 9th I believe it is, on a Friday evening and we’re getting ready to have Kris Radio for the next 90 minutes.

MARK: Of course we’re here with…

SERGE: Oh me, (laughing) Serge.

MARK: So while we’re waiting for Kris I’d just like to say a big ‘Happy Birthday’, ‘Belated Happy Birthday’ to Brian Ferrell down in Delaware and a future ‘Happy Birthday’ to Emmy VanSwaiij out in Spain. So ‘Happy Birthday’ folks!

JOHN: Well I guess I don’t know I’m getting kind of a zoomy feeling from this microphone here. I guess it’s gotta be somebody’s birthday just about everyday.

MARK: So Happy Birthday, everybody.

(Laughing)

MARK: So we don’t have a topic tonight. Not yet that we know of anyway. Last week we had, our last radio session, we had ‘The World’. That was a great topic. I liked that one.

JOHN: Yes. The world is not about the world, the world is about you.

MARK: Me.

JOHN: No, me.

(Laughing)

MARK: Ties in nicely with the Sakhara session that we had that’s about to be published soon. That was a good session.

SERGE: It may be nice to mention too that our conference for June is approximately 50 percent filled, with people coming from as far as Spain, Los Angeles, Colorado, Oregon, Utah and so on and so forth. Very nice warm feeling from that.

MARK: It’s gonna be a very nice crowd. So far there’s 26 people booked out of the possible 45 that the room can hold.

JOHN: 26 people! How many did we have for the ‘Heal The Heart’ workshop?

MARK: I honestly can’t tell you.

JOHN: I don’t think it was anywhere near that.

MARK: I think 25 sticks to my mind.

JOHN: Oh really?

SERGE: It was pretty near that.

JOHN: Yeah, it was a wonderful workshop.

MARK: The ‘Lotus Mind’ promises to top that one.

JOHN: Yes. It’s going to be very interesting.

MARK: For those of you that are interested in the ‘Lotus Mind’ workshop, you can go to www.krischronicles.com Kris is spelled with a ‘K’ and all the information is there and you can even sign up right there. So tonight we’re not sure if we, if it’s gonna be just Kris, or possibly Brahm might make an appearance tonight.

SERGE: Maybe either one of you could make a little mention of what Brahm is in relation to Kris.

MARK: Okay. That would be up my alley. First of all I guess we should talk about Kris. Serge is a focus personality. His Source, Kris calls Joseph. Joseph’s Source would be Kris and then Kris’ Source would be Brahm. Kris has defined himself as Essence, as Joseph would be Essence, where Brahm is Entity. Source of Essence. So it’s that much more removed, quadrant 3 of consciousness, if you’ve been following the Kris Chronicles.

JOHN: Yeah. Once you get past quadrant 2 I get pretty lost.

MARK: Well quadrant 1 is physical world: John, Mark and Serge. Quadrant 2 would be Essence. Quadrant 3 is Entity and quadrant 4 is Brahmajiote. The core light of your being.

JOHN: And what would quadrant 5 be?

MARK: Non-existent?

JOHN: Don’t bet your boots!

MARK: I know. That’s true. Never say never.

(Pause)

MARK: That dreaded silence.

JOHN: Now you learn in music that the silent notes are just as important as the sound notes in a composition. It gives people a chance to catch their breath a little bit.

JOHN: So we’ve been having a lovely weather here in Toronto.

(Laughing)

MARK: Yes, how about that weather. Actually it’s a balmy one degree. It’s nice and mild. It’s nice to have it above freezing. It’s very comfortable. Oh he’s starting to yawn, that’s a good sign.

JOHN: Well it’s interesting to think that we’re actually witnessing quite a significant little adjustment in vibrations and when someone comes through like this, eh?

MARK: Oh definitely, definitely.

JOHN: I wonder if Kris knows Seth.

(Chuckling)

MARK: And the glasses come off. Here we go.

BRAHM: We should mention that it has been some time in your terms and as you notice, this is not your usual chatting companion.

JOHN: No, Welcome Brahm.

MARK: It’s a pleasure to meet, to see you again.

BRAHM: It might be of great interest to speak about one of the greatest needs of the human being. Perhaps simply to make you more aware of your own needs and that particular need is to be appreciated. The need for appreciation, and we gather from the state of your collective consciousness that this need is not being met in sufficient quantity or quality and yet it is such a basic need to your creaturehood, to your most endearing selves, would you not agree?

MARK: Oh I would definitely agree.

JOHN: Yes certainly feel I don’t appreciate me enough.

BRAHM: And of course the key is: Do you appreciate yourself enough?

JOHN: Bingo! Yeah. I hear you. We’re getting there.

BRAHM: We believe that your website discussion on what you appreciate has become a favorite topic.

MARK: Yes it has.

BRAHM: And perhaps another perspective on appreciation might enhance the experience that much more. In a simple fashion for instance, how many times during the course of one of your days do you take a moment simply to appreciate what you do for your own self? Most of the day likely goes by with very little appreciation for your own actions and the events of your being. For instance you do take the time to prepare or at least eat breakfast and perhaps you might find a deep satisfaction simply taking the moment and appreciating the fact that you have just nourished your bodies, a very simple act that would usually go by unnoticed and unappreciated. What other things do you think you might appreciate about yourselves? It is a question.

MARK: Just going into some deep thought here, there are so many things, every breath I take.

JOHN: One of the things I’m learning to appreciate a whole lot more, actually, in the last number of months is how very sweet I am to myself in my creations if I allow it and look around and notice, I will notice just some really, really thoughtful sweet heartfelt creations that I create for myself virtually at any moment in any day.

BRAHM: You might discover that taking the time to acknowledge this to fully appreciate that moment can have a meaningful impact on your experience and your day. What other things could you appreciate?

JOHN: Well every once in a while I just say “oh my god it’s so wonderful to be alive.” Like isn’t it just grand to just be? Like to be part, to be among those present?

MARK: I was just gonna mention that the funeral directors have a motto. “Everyday above ground is a good day.”

(Laughter)

BRAHM: How would you put this to good use?

MARK: Well obviously we don’t appreciate ourselves enough and that is reflected in the world around us and I’ve been learning to appreciate myself more and more but even this conversation tonight has pointed out that I’m nowhere near where I should be and obviously that will reflect back at me the more I do it. I will create better days, more joy in my life.

BRAHM: One place to begin is to take stock of the times during the day where you may go all out and beat yourselves up with negative criticism and put-downs and then compare with the times during the day where you do take a moment to appreciate the experience at that very moment and see which one tips the scale in your favor then if you find it wanting, you may decide to change the very nature of your thoughts or patterns and increase the moments of appreciation for the things you do for yourselves and you may even extend that when you begin noticing that others are becoming more appreciative of yourself and as you do that you will also naturally gravitate towards a deeper appreciation of others for they do and bring into your life and you can keep extending this appreciating the sunrise and the sunset the clouds or the rain and all manifestations of nature since nature is also a part of you, a simple enough practice but one that may have a profound impact. Do you believe yourselves to be up to such a task?

MARK: Yes.

BRAHM: We do understand if you find it to be a Herculean task and we would not hold it against any of you if you find it so large a task that you would back off.

JOHN: No, it doesn’t sound like that big a deal. Appreciate yourself and then watch for other people to begin to appreciate you more and then that leads to your appreciating them more and then it just becomes a vicious circle of appreciation.

BRAHM: Indeed. And you can stop at any time. We would not want anyone to become overly addicted to appreciation.

(Laughter)

BRAHM: But if you must become addicted, then by all means, indulge.

JOHN: Well it’s interesting, Brahm, that you speak about appreciation because as you mentioned, Kris had a wonderful practice for us toward the end of last year, I guess it was where we did the twenty-one day appreciation game and I think that definitely helped me turn a corner on the idea of appreciating. I don’t know whether it’s me or not, but I think I’m better-looking now than I was then (laughing) at least when I go by the mirror I say “oh you handsome devil!”

BRAHM: The pay-off as you would put it is that the very nature of your Being seeks out appreciation as human beings. It is an act that deeply nourishes in your terms, body mind and soul to be appreciated, and when you are so nurtured, when you feel safe in this way your own natural exuberant creativity displays itself in uninhibited ways. We believe it is indeed a very cornerstone of your constitution as great beings. Appreciation, compassion, empathy, all are different facets of what you refer to as love, as it is interpreted and demonstrated through your human experience. These great pillars of awareness can be utilized to build your reality in a very nice way. We also understand that it is at times easier to simply cover this up and protect yourselves when you do not feel safe, when you do not feel appreciated but neglected and rebuked instead, as would be reflections of your own inner condition. Would you not agree?

MARK: Definitely. That one really hit home for me. It’s like the key to all the problems that I face, all the challenges that I face in my reality, it can be pinpointed right there.

BRAHM: And what say you? (To John)

JOHN: Yes well I think appreciation is. I totally understand what you’re saying. The thought that occurs to me is, I think I mentioned this on www.newworldview.com at one post or another, but the word appreciation I think has two meanings at least. One of course is the idea of understanding the value of something and responding to that value but the other meaning of appreciate is to actually grow in value. Like if your stocks appreciate then they actually grow in value, so it strikes me as kind of a cute combination of meanings because as I appreciate myself, as I appreciate the value I have, the value I am grows. (Laughter)

BRAHM: We would agree. And this is an important key as so many in your world are constantly searching for fulfillment, for something that validates them, for an experience and the more they search, the more they do not find. So many people search for truth, for meaning and many do spend a greater portion of their lives for what they think must always be over the next hill, but when they get there, it is not there, it has eluded them once again. Do you understand?

(Yes. Oh yeah)

BRAHM: And their one greatest impediment, the biggest block is actually very simple. It is the seeking that prevents the discovering.

JOHN: Now can I ask a question, Brahm on that? If the seeking prevents the discovery now I’m assuming what you’re saying is seeking outwardly.

BRAHM: Yes.

JOHN: Now let’s say a person was to seek inwardly, would there be the same issue? Inward seeking also prevents discovery? Or is it a different…

BRAHM: Depending upon the manner of the seeking.

JOHN: So this sort of goes back to the old adage you have to give in order to receive. By appreciating yourself, by giving yourself that appreciation is what creates the giving, the receiving.

BRAHM: Specifically, the quest for, the seeking for, the wanting to find, the missing something, stems from a core belief that one does not have truth or peace that it must be somewhere outside of Self. It indicates the belief that you might not even be worthy thus that is why truth eludes you, therefore you find someone who may teach you how to become worthy. It may be a priest, a guru, a deity of some kind, a philosophy, a philosopher, yet the true teacher, the true philosopher would not send you on the quest over hill and dale but much more so would point towards the individual and indicate that the treasure is to be found nowhere but here, in the heart, in self. Do you understand?

(yes)

BRAHM: Thus in order to find what you seek, you must give up seeking. This is not too ‘Zen’ is it?

MARK: No, not at all.

JOHN: No, no, not at all.

MARK: You get what you focus upon and since you’re seeking, you’re focusing upon a lack of, that you don’t have it, that it’s somewhere else, and it’s right there all along.

JOHN: So in a sense this reminds me of our earlier discussions of opposing and allowing and I’m seeing seeking as a form of opposing and what you’re describing as not seeking anymore is a form of allowing. I’m just curious to follow-up on something you mentioned earlier that was that when we seek inwardly that this can be just as futile, depending on the kind of inward seeking that we engage in? Could you expand on that a tiny bit?

BRAHM: Most certainly. There are two kind of inner seeking. One path is that somewhere hidden deep down in some dark corridors of the mind or the self is a treasure and if one has the right kind of instruction, the right keys, the right penance or incantation then it may be revealed if one is worthy enough. That kind of seeking will keep the hamster wheel turning non-stop.

JOHN: Alright, I understand that.

BRAHM: The other kind of seeking says “my Being is sufficient treasure for me to begin appreciating that I am the wisdom, the truth, the revelation and that I simply must live this truth and my seeking, my hunting, my searching comes to an end today.” Do you understand?

JOHN: Yeah. So it’s really in a sense not seeking then at that level. It’s a form of acceptance.

BRAHM: Yes. It is not so much a surrendering as it is an appreciation that you are all of those things and through this new vision one can establish very different perspective that seems the treasure is within then it will be manifested all around as well. So there is no need to go over hill and dale to the ends of the earth and so on to find what already exists in your Self, because Self is the treasure.

JOHN: That’s nice.

BRAHM: And you can appreciate that feather in your hat. This makes sense to you?

JOHN: Oh yeah!

MARK: Very much so. I keep reflecting back to something Kris told me about five years ago, when I was in a depression: “I have a right to be because I am.”

BRAHM: None of you are ever a waste of skin. None of your thoughts, none of your energies are meaningless, superfluous in any way shape or form.

JOHN: So just to translate this into my own reference points, this suggests to me that striving of any kind is counterproductive.

BRAHM: There is a marked difference between striving and being.

JOHN: Yeah!

BRAHM: Can you describe them?

JOHN: Okay well ‘being’, you can’t really say much about being, I’ll just send out a beaming beam of energy and you pick that up (John then sounds off a sound effect of a beam) Now striving on the other hand is trying to change something or accomplish something or basically striving is saying “okay whatever we got now isn’t quite what we want. I want THAT instead.”

BRAHM: Striving would be based on the belief that one is never good enough and yet it simultaneously denies that there is what has been referred to original goodness within each Being in the sense that one CAN be good enough.

JOHN: That one IS in fact good enough! Well that raises a question for me Brahm, like many, many sources have told us, bless their hearts, that life here is meant to be fun and relaxed and enjoyable and exhilarating that we’ve got everything we need, we just relax and be and enjoy and have fun! Now that is such delightful and seductive wonderful vision of what life could be but on the other hand it’s virtually impossible for me to maintain that for more than about thirty seconds at a time without getting caught up in you know, whatever. Now, are all the things that catch me up and take me back to another place, are all of those things, things that we can just EFT away or re-program away or you know, somehow AAA away or get rid of? Not get rid of but accept and allow so that they no longer have an energetic hold on us? So anything that stands between me just relaxing and having fun. Is that what you’re saying?

MARK: Nods his head. (Referring to Brahm)

JOHN: Is there like a pill we can take for this?

(Laughter)

BRAHM: We will get right on it!

MARK: I’m reminded of the five minutes of joy challenge, because obviously John we’re not gonna turn around in two minutes and it’s all gonna be different and the key is to take little steps.

BRAHM: For thousands of years now, in your terms, you have come to believe that you are somehow rather soiled, tainted, dirty. That being who you are is something to be ashamed of. Is it not?

JOHN: Oh yeah. That’s what I’m talking about.

BRAHM: So it stands to reason that interpreting its opposite might present a challenge.

JOHN: Well if that’s gonna take thousands of years too, then I don’t have time.

(Chuckling)

BRAHM: And fortunately it does not take thousands of years.

JOHN: Oh good! Now that’s good!

BRAHM: You can begin as we described earlier.

JOHN: Appreciating.

BRAHM: Yes. If you revive memories of your youth, your childhood, your infancy and you wish you had been appreciated more then begin that process now. You can change the history of appreciation for yourself in this experience, in this now, transform how you were appreciated and instead create a new appreciation. You all have one of the greatest tools of all: your ability to image.

JOHN: Okay.

BRAHM: Image then, in those times you thought you were not appreciated sufficiently and image that you ARE being appreciated sufficiently. The time span is irrelevant. It is being done now. That will normally, naturally and progressively melt away any rigid barriers that you have created to protect the heart. Any barriers that you have set up, regardless of who you are, to protect your heart simply says that the world is not safe. YOUR reality is not safe. So begin then this appreciation process and once again, rediscover those pillars. Do you remember what they are?

JOHN: Oh yeah. We got the pillars here: appreciation, passion, empathy.

MARK: Compassion.

BRAHM: Without those pillars, the human experience of your spiritual journey may leave you feeling wanting.

JOHN: Well it just occurs to me, not to cross sources here but I believe it was Abe who said that appreciation is in fact the highest, most potent vibration that we can express as human beings.

BRAHM: Because it does go to the very core of your Being. Elias also has very nice discussions on compassion and it should also be pointed out that if you cannot be compassionate towards your own self, no one will be compassionate towards you and you will not express it towards others.

JOHN: Yes. That’s a point to bring home to people I think because so many times I see people just really being quite cruel to themselves.

BRAHM: Do you understand why?

JOHN: No.

BRAHM: Because they have erected barriers to the heart and they may very well feel severely underappreciated and they cannot understand why the world does not appreciate them back, but by erecting barriers the world cannot cross into the heart. Do you understand?

JOHN: Yes, so because of the fact that the world does not appreciate them which of course is a consequence of them having not appreciated themselves and erecting those barriers then they get to the point of thinking that maybe they’re not very appreciatable, they’re not very worthy in their own selves and they need to take out the whip and you know, bring themselves up to snuff so to speak.

BRAHM: Indeed. Just as there are individuals who would even claim that these issues being discussed right now: compassion, appreciation, empathy are merely human traits and have nothing to do with Essence. That somehow rather you must rise above. That also leads into a dangerous area filled with thorns and bramble and fields of cold experiences. Do you understand?

JOHN: Uh-uh.

BRAHM: You will not, plain and simple, you will not understand Essence by discounting your humanity.

JOHN: Can I ask a question, a little bit of a meta-question? Does this discounting of ourselves, the lack of appreciation we feel sometimes for ourselves well, for thousands of years, you’re operating at the level of entity. Does Essence ever get involved in these kinds of shenanigans of not appreciating themselves and going on a long cold journey? Or is that a unique quality of focal awareness?

BRAHM: You could say that it is, for lack of better words, the dark side of the experience, the lack of, which is based upon fear. Based upon the idea that if I am not that appreciable or appreciated there must be something ominous about myself. Do you understand?

JOHN: Yes. Now I believe it was Kris who mentioned, the dark, what we think of as the shadow side is actually, serves a real purpose here in our experience of giving depth and whole roundness to our experiences here. Is there anything in that?

BRAHM: Yes. Mostly that its recognition means you are ninety percent of the way out and that you can then easily return to a place of safety and that much more appreciate the adventure you have just undertaken even if it seemed rather gruesome at times. There is still a deep appreciation for having undergone the experience but it is not necessarily to mean that in order to understand appreciation you must go through the forest of thorns and bramble. Do you understand?

JOHN: Yeah, that ends up being a choice of how we want to grow, but if we do end up in the brambles and we can find a way to appreciate it, then as you say we’re ninety percent out.

BRAHM: Now what is your time?

MARK: Five to eight.

BRAHM: And then perhaps this is as good a time as any to appreciate a break.

JOHN: Lovely.

(Four minute musical interlude)

MARK: And we’re back! (Chuckling) Unexpectedly, but we’re back! John here has been taking pictures that we can put up on the website and so Serge is getting his picture taken here. So we’ve been speaking tonight about appreciation, mainly self-appreciation and the pillars: compassion, empathy and appreciation. Oh, my turn for a photo. (John is saying something) You’re not on the mike, John.

(You can hear John in the background taking a photo “okay, watch the birdie!”)

MARK: Sorry for that folks. Everybody’s here wandering around the room so I’m sort of on the mike by myself here. (Chuckling). Okay, that’s enough, John.

SERGE: Okay. (Serge getting settled after having his picture taken)

MARK: So Serge do you think its okay to open the lines in a little bit? No? Not tonight.

JOHN: Well we’ve been learning quite a lot about appreciation, right?

MARK: Indeed.

JOHN: Yeah, it’s apparently an immensely potent expression.

BRAHM: You have your own ways of demonstrating appreciation, compassion and empathy through your very human selves and do you know why?

JOHN: Cause it’s a natural expression of ourselves as Essence?

BRAHM: Yes.

MARK: You get the gold star.

BRAHM: Your expressions and communications as Essence are based on these and more, including a delicious sweet hilarious sense of pleasure and well-being. In its wider demonstrations you might think that your human interpretations are lacking and therefore not worth bothering with just as some people believe that because your desires appear to lead you into the wheel of life and death then you must stop desiring. It is not practical and not very logical ultimately.

MARK: Without desire, we would not even exist, correct?

BRAHM: That is so. Thus there is a deep psychology to consciousness itself and these pillars and more, are to be interpreted in your terms in this fashion. It does not mean that it is somehow rather inferior just as simply because you are physically focused expression of your source that you are somehow rather inferior, and that you can only become superior by poorly imitating source. Do you understand?

JOHN: I think so. That’s a happy thought as I think of it, well as we talked about earlier, striving to become Essence is self-defeating.

MARK: It would also suggest that Essence is flawed because it can’t create (John chimes in) perfect focals. It’s creating flawed focuses so therefore it’s flawed.

BRAHM: Very good point. What is not flawed is your eternal nature, your state of being and appreciation in its highest form stems from source appreciating all focuses so in some way then denying this also expresses the belief that somehow or other source, essence, the divine, the god, goddess, however you name it, has not seen fit to make you better than you are. Do you understand?

(Yes)

BRAHM: That can lead to many inferiority complexes and anger and resentment issues, by developing a deeper appreciation this can indeed be transformed so that you are free to enjoy who and what you are. Do you agree?

MARK: Wholeheartedly.

JOHN: Oh sure.

MARK: This whole conversation has me in such deep thought. It’s almost like a one-on-one conversation with myself. My whole life is flashing before my eyes there.

BRAHM: You do not worry. You are not ready to leave that life.

MARK: Not in THAT way!

BRAHM: But if you can understand how a mother appreciates giving birth to her child watching him or her grow, unfold, develop, mature and it will give you an inkling of the deeper layers of appreciation from source. Do you understand?

MARK: Yes.

JOHN: I think so.

MARK: It’s a very good example.

BRAHM: Now we are not saying you must all become mothers to understand appreciation but it would certainly behoove any of you to begin the process now. And you can do something as simple as putting either one or both hands over the heart area, feeling the warmth of your hands penetrate your skin, your chest, taking a deep breath and exhaling with a deep sigh, a deep audible sigh.

(Mark and John take deeps breaths and try the exercise)

BRAHM: Not huffing and puffing air!

(Laughter)

BRAHM: a sigh! Something like this! (Brahm demonstrates exhaling with an audible sigh, Mark and John follow his lead)

BRAHM: And whether you say it audibly or quietly in your mind, simply tell yourself that you appreciate this very moment for being whom and what you are and let that sense of appreciation reach deep within and embrace every part of you and move from the physical aspect of you deep into the unseen aspect of you, the invisible, the greater aspect of you and feel that sense of deep appreciation move the mountains of your disbeliefs and denials and part the oceans of your resistances and opposings. Render asunder all of your shields and barriers and walls and reach within and nurture every single aspect from the child within, all the way to who you are now and with another deep sigh (Brahm demonstrates) you can return your hands to their original position and just take notice of what is happening to your energies.

MARK: Very powerful.

JOHN: Yes, that was lovely.

BRAHM: It is very soothing is it not?

MARK: Indeed.

BRAHM: Now what is the time?

MARK: Quarter after eight.

BRAHM: If there are any callers wanting to call, you may give them the number.

(Mark proceeds to announce the phone number and explain the phone etiquette)

MARK: The line is open.

BRAHM: In the meantime, this very small exercise in self-appreciation can have a powerful, meaningful impact if you take the time to experience it. It takes but two minutes to do so. Now do you have any questions?

MARK: No. (Laughing)

JOHN: That’s unacceptable. (Jokingly)

BRAHM: Comments or observations?

JOHN: Well I have, this is kind of an on-going pet concept I’ve been worrying with over a couple of years now. Our basic stance vis-à-vis our lives here as a focal, is it to our advantage to accept and allow and appreciate and have fun as our primary stance or are there areas where we need to buckle down and pay attention and learn things and try and get ahead?

BRAHM: And why do or why the need for two separate camps?

JOHN: Well that’s always a mind-blower isn’t it? Well okay, we can have both because in a sense my need to strive and figure things out and learn and get ahead is something I can appreciate about myself and have fun with! Okay.

MARK: You ARE, so whatever you’re doing is the right thing to be doing.

JOHN: You know that’s so easy to say….

MARK: I know! (Laughing)

JOHN: Golly! It’s a tricky one to actually pull off on a repeated basis!

BRAHM: Yes, and do you understand why?

JOHN: Because of thousands of years of conditioning that I’m not worthy, you know all things we talked about earlier.

BRAHM: Yes.

JOHN: So let’s say we’ve got two or three thousand years of, and I’m assuming when you make the point in that way, that I’m not struggling with lack of appreciation in this focal experience, I’m struggling with hundreds perhaps of focal experiences, all of them culminating in this one.

BRAHM: Now you are not particularly and specifically responsible for any other focuses. You are yourself uniquely so. You are responsible for your experiences within your reality, YOUR reality. Others are sharing their reality with you. So you live in a most interesting collective.

JOHN: Yes, actually last time Kris introduced a term called ‘ubuntu’ I believe it is, which means that I am what I am because of, well he slightly changed it, in Kris’ version of it ‘I am what I am because of everything that I am.’ Which I thought was a very helpful concept.

BRAHM: Yes it is. Just as each of the molecules in your body are sharing in your energy. You, giving them a unique reality over and above what they are so does every being within your world act in the same way. They are uniquely themselves as well as what you make them to be, and in return, you are uniquely yourself as well as what everyone else makes you to be and out of that unfathomable reality you still are who you are. The contrasts highlight you more than anything and as mentioned a moment ago, you create the experiences within your reality but you are not an island unto yourself so your experiences are shared with others as you share within the experiences of the others. Do you understand?

JOHN: Yeah, I love that idea, I love that idea and Kris actually mentioned something, I was just gonna confirm with you, he said this paradox that you’re describing of every point of view being unique but at the same time an integral part of every other point of view. Apparently it is a natural, innate quality of consciousness itself to continually create shared consensus realities out of innumerable different points of view.

BRAHM: Simply because consciousness and units of consciousness are in completely open-ended system. There are simply no barriers. So your joy is immediately experienced by the entirety of creation and you can experience the joy of creation as soon as you allow it.

JOHN: Very inspiring words Brahm, as soon as we allow it.

BRAHM: You can also experience the appreciation of the entire universe as soon as you begin to appreciate yourself. Now what is the time?

MARK: Twenty after eight.

BRAHM: Any other observations, comments, questions?

MARK: When you talk about the thousands of years of conditioning, we’re talking about an experiment in consciousness that we chose to partake in, but is this a common theme just in different depths so to speak, different levels? Is this past particular experiment in consciousness…? (Brahm interrupts)

BRAHM: Now when we make reference to thousands of years we did say in your terms.

MARK: Yes.

BRAHM: In OTHER terms, from an other perspective there is no thousands of years. That you are expressing yourselves in a particular fashion and in order to make sense of your experiences you need to establish certain foundations that include time and space continuums. Do you understand?

MARK: Yes.

BRAHM: All in all this could simply be the heartbeat of a collective soul. Do you understand that?

MARK: Yes, yes thank you.

BRAHM: But we do appreciate the creative endeavors in establishing what you would refer to then as your time and space continuum because it allows for the foundations of certain powerful experiences and those that enter into that plane of existence usually follow and abide by the specific governances of your plane. We do not necessarily have to abide by those conditions and governances as our main focus is completely out of your systems. There is still a component that coordinates in such a fashion as we need to make use of your psychology of the time-space continuum to communicate with you, so we have to travel through the psychological airspace just as one of your jets may have to go through the airspace of different countries to reach its destination.

JOHN: That must be quite a trip traveling through our psychology.

BRAHM: At times.

JOHN: A little turbulence sometimes.

MARK: Fasten your seatbelts, you’re in for a ride.

BRAHM: That is what we have been telling YOU for some time.

JOHN: Well that’s very interesting, Brahm (John started to say something as Brahm spoke)

BRAHM: Now:

JOHN: Yes, sorry go ahead.

BRAHM: Joseph is not accustomed to holding THIS trance for so long. So we need to respect and appreciate his position and return him to you.

MARK: Thank you.

JOHN: Well we really appreciate your coming to visit Brahm, really appreciate it!

BRAHM: Indeed! Then enjoy your appreciation.

MARK: Thank you.

JOHN: Well that was great, eh?

MARK: That hit home for me.

JOHN: Yeah?

MARK: Yeah, I need to do some work there.

JOHN: Oh I’m gonna do some imagery around appreciation for sure.

MARK: When he brought up childhood, I was flooded – flooded with imagery.

JOHN: When you weren’t appreciated.

MARK: Yup, and now I gotta go back, and I CAN go back and change that, which is great.

JOHN: Yeah, you just have to fill a great big bucket full of appreciation and you go back there and slosh it on everything that moves.

MARK: Yeah, exactly.

SERGE: Just put it in the trough.

MARK: Well kids it’s that time. We’re gonna wish everyone a goodnight. Be sure to check us out at krischronicles.com or Kris chronicles forum on newworldview.com

SERGE: And maybe you can mention that the recording will be available only Monday.

MARK: There will be a delay.

SERGE: Unless you can burn a file.

MARK: Possibly, off the recording, but you won’t know this if you didn’t listen to it (chuckling) anyway, goodnight folks!

JOHN: Kris Radio is off the air!

(Kris radio ends)
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Maps of Consciousness

March 4, 2007

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois and Transcribed by Ellen Gilbert (Kwaa’Ji)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on March 04, 2007

Roll Call: Serge, Mark, Myrna, John, Olga, Paul, Jo, Brian, Cathy, Jen, Ellen, Lisa, Tom, Anya

(7:47 PM)

KRIS: Now then, we trust that you are all comfortable and we thank you for your consideration. In keeping with the subject matter of meaningfulness, we would like to continue and add other elements as we proceed. On the agenda for this evening, we would enjoy bringing an awareness of maps; Maps of Consciousness. And in order to understand this, we humbly ask that you very quickly recall the discussions and the practices that we discussed some time back on the “Who Are You?” series.

And in conjunction with maps, perhaps ask you all to do something even silly for a moment. Take your right index finger and touch your nose and say the word “nose.”….. Now touch your right ear and say, “ear.”….. Perhaps your left shoulder and say “shoulder.”…..Perhaps your right kneecap and say “kneecap.”

(Participants all comply and respond to each of Kris’ requests)

Indeed! Now this might appear to be silly, but it is very instructive as most silliness is wont to be. Now you have touched your nose. You know that the nose is not you and neither is your ear, your shoulder, or your kneecap. These are not you, correct?

(Yes)

Thus, again the question, “Who are you?” can begin to float around in your lovely minds. Before you understood that the nose that you have was yours, you entertained a basic idea of whom and what you are, but not in those terms. As you grew from an infant into a child, you began to identify specific portions of your body – your nose – and you may even have become distraught if your grandfather or your uncle “stole” your nose! Do you remember those games?

(Group laughter)

MARK: All too well!

KRIS: Indeed! But you have the basic understanding that your nose is not you. As you grew older, you began to form maps, psychological maps, of your body. This is your nose. This is your ear, your knee, your toe, etc. Over time, there are many people who begin to over-identify with the body as if it were who they are and yet, and of itself, the body in its many parts represent certain aspects of your individuality, but the body, even in its entirety, is not you.

If you travel to a foreign city and you acquire a map of that city, you know for instance, that the map is not the city, because you can fold the map and put it in your pocket. And the map and the city are two very different things. In the map there are no sights, no sounds, no smells, no experiences, period. These are to be found when you are in the city and experience them firsthand. The map of the city, however, allows you to do some navigating, so that you can enjoy the sights, sounds and smells and experiences of the city itself. But the map is not the city, just as the body is not the self.

And the body only represents the outermost expressions of the self, but is not the self. Thus, the body is not the self, the city is not the map, the map is not the city, and if you continue this further, out into the reflections of the world, you will see that the world itself is a kind of map about YOU, in that it reflects many aspects of whom and what you are, but is not whom and what you are, just as the tree’s reflection by the lake is not the tree, but only its reflection in the water.

Thus, physical reality, in its own unique way, is also a kind of map about you, and there are different degrees of maps and all of these are merely means by which you attempt to know yourselves, but the maps are not the self. Even your thoughts, beliefs, convictions, expectations, are other kinds of maps, consciousness maps, about who you are. Your beliefs and convictions represent what you have convinced yourselves as being capable or not capable of doing, etc.

And though this is perhaps not as refined as we would like to present it, it is important to recognize that distinction so that you do not forget that the map about yourself is not who you are, just as the map of any city is not the city, but merely a representation that allows you to begin recognizing what the map represents.

It becomes even more important to grasp this even at its deeper levels, as you yourselves begin to recognize that as you peel away layer upon layer of assumptions about yourselves, the assumptions are not you. You are something entirely different. And all of the maps, regardless of how many there exists, all of the maps represent different stages that fluctuate between dualism and non-dualism.

But your understanding that you are something even beyond this can definitely allow you to perceive, however slightly, that you are something again very different from either end of those spectrums.

As we briefly explored last time, even some of the more subtle representations in terms of non-dualism, non-form, are in themselves yet another kind of map that is not who you are. We appreciate that in many older and even ancient cultures there were experimentations and explorations of various formless stages and states of awareness, but these also should not be taken as the destination, just as the map is not the city.

These too, are a different kind of map in that they represent a state of being sometimes viewed as, and experienced as, so radically different from the dualistic state, that there are very few references within which to contextualize this state and therefore it is considered formless or void, but only because it is considered so radical and different and not fully explored.

Perhaps by way of simple analogy, you may understand this. Say you are in a brightly lit room and you can recognize and acknowledge the beautiful furnishings, perhaps a chair, a table, cabinets, draperies, decor, all sorts of details that make a room most lovely to perceive with the senses. And from that brightly lit room, you walk into another room, without any apparent source of light and close the door.

Your immediate interpretation is that there is nothing in this room. It is all but dark until your eyes have fully adjusted in order for you to begin distinguishing the edges of certain shapes, whatever they may be, and you may even have to walk up to those indistinct shapes in the dark. Very slowly, of course, so you do not bump your shinbones.

And once you are close enough, you may tentatively reach out until your fingertips make contact with something and in this way, in the dark, with your sense of touch, you begin to give it a sensorial shape, you interpret what you touch since you cannot see in this dark environment. You may even listen to any sounds created when you touch this object that is barely seen at all, so that you can feel in some other sense perception.

And as you continue to experiment in whatever fashion you can, you begin to interpret perhaps other forms that cannot as such be seen. And as you begin to retire from this space and exit the room, back into the brightly lit room, you may think that though you have perceived certain kinds of sensory interpretations, the whole experience might appear very abstract to you, compared to the forms and objects in the brightly lit room. Does this make some sense to you?

(Yes)

Thus, by way of this crude analogy, we want to convey to you, that even what you consider the formless, the void, is simply because you do not utilize the kinds of senses necessary to interpret consciousness within that other environment. And to your great surprise, that which is considered formless or void may even be filled with so many kinds of shapes and forms so foreign to your regular senses that you would simply not know how to interpret them through your regular sense mechanism.

So it may appear to you to be formless or void, but it is not really. It is the domain of thought perceptions as such beyond the mental, but in that plane where consciousness exists in such a form that it presupposes any and all forms well beyond anything you can imagine, even by a long stretch. Does this also make some sense to you?

(Yes)

MARK: As Paul would say, in a ballpark kind of way.

KRIS: Then perhaps you may be so kind as to open the line.

MARK: The lines are open.

KRIS: Does this make sense to you as well?

TOM: Yes, it does.

MARK: Everyone else?

ANYA: I was going to ask Kris if there was any way he could attempt to describe any of those forms or shapes that are so foreign to us that even by a long stretch we cannot imagine what they are. I mean, if there is anything that can be described in a way that we can attempt to perceive?

KRIS: Are you able to imagine everything that you cannot imagine yet?

ANYA: (Giggling) It looks like a void to me. It looks like that…that black hole.

KRIS: Correct. In that plane, consciousness is at such a stage that it contains literally the blueprints for all the forms that could exist in any variation of physical reality possible, but they are not distinct, one from the other. The distinctions come later on when you as awareness interact through perception and begin to define the shapes consciousness will project. Do you follow?

ANYA: Are we talking about Framework 3 or Framework 4, or is it not even within the ballpark?

KRIS: This plane is bordering and straddles Framework 1 and 2. Do not think for one moment your Framework 1 relates only to your views of physical reality. It is such an infinitely large domain in and of itself that we suggest it not be quickly discounted. Do you follow?

ANYA: No…Not really. So you are saying this is part of Framework 1?

KRIS: And Framework 2. It straddles both.

ANYA: Okay, okay….. and then is there any…..when we talked about the duality and non-duality and that state in between, can you attach, if possible, frameworks to all of those three components? I mean, we just did, to that state of non-duality, it is a one and a two, what about that state that embraces both of them and what about the state of duality?

KRIS: Perhaps this may come at a later time.

ANYA: Okay, thank you.

KRIS: Would anyone else care to comment, participate, inquire? (Silent pause) We are very patient!

MARK: Nothing from California?

JO: Well, Kris, when you described the dark room and equated it with information outside the realm of our senses, I was reminded of a researcher who found that elephants communicated with each other using subsonic sounds, like the dogs do – they hear higher frequencies – so to us, those are senses outside of our regular range of perception and can be referred to as extra-sensory perception, it’s just that we don’t have those senses, but they do, so it kind of provides a framework that even extends into our physical reality in some respects.

KRIS: It could also be said that, even though your own senses operate within certain parameters, you can function outside of those parameters to a certain extent and successfully at that. Acclimating yourselves, your senses, to learn to respond to information that usually would be unavailable to the senses. Do you follow?

JO: Yes. Using the inner senses, I think you might say.

KRIS: Correct.

MARK: This reminds me of back when Joseph and I first met. I quickly developed the ability to detect your presence in the room. Not a hundred percent fool-proof, but from time to time, I was aware of your energy without feeling or seeing or visualizing or hearing, but I knew. Is that what we’re talking about here?

KRIS: Indeed. Any other comments or observations? Perhaps Birthday Boy?

(In Delaware, we were celebrating Brian’s birthday.)

BRIAN: Which birthday boy, Mark or me?

MARK: You.

BRIAN: Just listening and taking it all in, Kris.

JOHN: Well, I have a comment and sort of a question, Kris. Just following along the pattern that you have delivered in the couple of years that I’ve known you, let’s say that we establish that in the void, the formless, beyond the physical, that we discover that we can function there, that we are functioning there quite successfully and that we identify eventually a certain kind of sensory apparatus that works there, I’ll bet you a nickel that we’re not that either!

KRIS: Indeed. As was once said, you are more than the sum of all of your parts. So though the parts are representative of certain aspects of you yourself, by themselves they are not you. There is an African word that would be very suitable here and we are aware that it is also utilized for software, but the African word is UBUNTU, which means that “I am what I am because of what we all are.”

Thus, translated to the self, it could say that you are what you are because of everything that you are, yet you are still more than all of that. We are still making attempts to stretch that elastic membrane of your imagination. Stretch the boundaries of your own parameters. Does that make sense?

JOHN: Yes, do we just say “Uncle” when it begins to hurt?

(Laughter)

KRIS: As you wish!

JOHN: So just a follow-up on that, Kris: the implication is that the formless space that we’re talking about here, this dark room that we can begin to catch a perception of….this is also a map that’s not the territory, but points us to other aspects of Self.

KRIS: Correct! Thus, the formless, the void, only appears so because you have yet to interpret the Self found there. That Self is so vast, that it is yet to be recognized. You do not sense its boundaries as you so easily and much more readily sense your own boundaries in your habitual self.

JOHN: Well, that raises a question for me, Kris, if I may. In practical — you often speak in terms of being practical — in practical terms, how much of that can I encompass with my everyday consciousness?

KRIS: Very nicely you can begin to examine and even revise the maps of Self that you have made so far, up to and including the Self’s representation through physical reality, knowing it is but another map, not you. But as you familiarize yourself with those perceptions and aspects, you know that you can never be subdued, overwhelmed, overtaken by any of these maps, because you are the map-maker.

And as such, you have then, at your disposal, great abilities and talents to re-define and even edit the maps that no longer take you to see beautiful sights, sounds, smells, enjoyments and experiences. You create different or new maps. Does that make sense?

JOHN: Yes, it does, actually. It’s fun.

KRIS: Thus no life situation, in and of itself, can limit you.

JOHN: Yeah, that’s good actually, because I was thinking about Toronto — we’re here in Toronto — and I’ve seen old maps of Toronto, maybe fifty to a hundred years old, and they show things that aren’t there any more, so if I’m using that to try and get from where I am and where I want to be that are out of date, then it’s going to greatly complicate my activities.

KRIS: Correct, and as each of you are master map-makers, because you have been making these maps of your consciousness for a very long time in that sense of the word, you need to recognize that you are not the subject of the map, nor the by-product of the map, but the other way around. Does that make sense as well? The map does not create the city, now does it?

JOHN: No.

KRIS: Does this answer your inquiry?

JOHN: Yes, it does, very much so. Never mind the formless, however charming that may be, I need to take my…..

MYRNA: Map-making abilities.

JOHN: I need to address my map-making abilities to my own present situation.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: Although it is rather nice to know that if I ever wanted to have….rather than having the edge of the map just drop off and say, “there are dragons there,” I can put the formless there and say, “Okay, when the time is right, we’ll be exploring that, too.”

KRIS: Indeed, and as you reach the very edge of the world, so to speak, you will not fall off, you will simply create that which is necessary to continue your exploration. The question now is where were you when sailing ships were falling over the edge of the world? Are there other inquiries in the land of the telephone?

TOM: I have just a comment. It seems that these maps would be, in our terms, unending. We’ll always be making maps, there will always be new maps, and the maps do not create the city and I’m thinking that it also might be correct to say that these maps do not create events in our lives also?

KRIS: You create the maps in order to navigate through time and space as the explorers that you are. Your own root domain is not physical reality, thus you create these maps in order to navigate territory. The territory in these cases are the beliefs and convictions, the attitudes, the perceptions, etc. and you utilize them literally to carve your path through the jungles of consciousness. Does that make sense to you?

TOM: Yes, it does. It’s very helpful. Thank you.

KRIS: Now who is going to find Dr. Livingstone?

(Strangely enough, there was no laughter here.)

Have you lost your humor in the many maps?

MARK: (Chuckling) I don’t get the joke!

(Laughter)

JOHN: (Explaining) Livingstone was lost in the Congo, and the fellow who found him said, “Dr. Livingstone, I presume?” when he met the guy in the middle of the jungle.

ANYA: I have a question that I just thought of and it might be….anyway….is the map in a sense, a kind of post creation so we’re trying to describe something that’s already there compared to the blueprint that’s actually birthing the creation of the form which is like a pre-creation….? I hope I’m making sense, but are we only using maps to describe what’s already there and by definition or we can be using maps in the sense that we’re using this to also birth and create other things?

KRIS: (To Mark) Might you interpret this?

ANYA: (Giggling) Okay, maybe just never mind, maybe I’ll…I’ll think about this a little more and then I’ll ask the question.

MYRNA: (Chuckling) I don’t understand why you don’t understand, Kris…the question, I mean.

ANYA: Okay, maybe you can interpret that?

MYRNA: I think he’s saying you have the answer, Anya.

MARK: So, in other words, the city doesn’t create the map, and the map doesn’t create the city, but somebody creates them both.

ANYA: (Laughing)

MARK: These are designs, some cities have them, some maps are created after the fact, but either way somebody else is there.

ANYA: Okay, gotcha. Thank you.

MARK: It’s a different perspectives.

PAUL: Just to comment there too, another way to think about this is just the way we naturally use language, so if the map is not the territory, the territory we always experience directly from our first-person perspective, our “I” space, our “me space….that’s the territory: the “I-I-I,” or what ever you want to call it, the All That Is, Self, Atman…

So the maps, to distinguish the maps…the maps are always in a third person form and it it’s never in my “I” space, it’s always in an “it” space, so it’s like a physical map that you take on a road trip. That map is not the territory, even though you have the map in your “I” space, as you go along the trip and you’re discovering new places and going into the jungles of Africa and “Dr. Livingstone, I presume” all of that occurs in your “I” space. That’s just another way to distinguish between the map and the territory.

MYRNA: If I may, I think Anya’s question, for me, is a question I’d like to know, too. The map….is it a map of something that already is, or is it a map creating what is to become? Or is it both? (Long pause) This is mind-blowing for me….that in some ways, its words I have to take time to absorb.

MARK: The important understanding is that you are not the map.

MYRNA: Yeah, yeah.

MARK: What you use the maps for is another thing.

KRIS: Just as you do not greet a stranger and say, “This is me, my name is Myrna.”

MARK: (Explaining to those on the phone lines) He’s pointing to his nose.

KRIS: Do you follow that?

MYRNA: Yes, I do.

KRIS: It would be quite interesting if you were to give your nose and say, “Here I am.” Thus, simply to express that the map and the territory both are still not you, you are the creator of the territory and the map. You are the source. Does that make some sense?

MYRNA: It makes sense….and…well, I’m sitting here and I’m realizing as I’m listening to this, that there’s a power in all of this that I can’t begin to fathom.

KRIS: Indeed there is. You are, as Source, as Atman, utilizing these tools to understand and explore the power of your presence in any given plane of existence. Time, space, the territory and the map are natural by-products of Self, but you are somewhat different from all of these things together. So there is an enormous amount of power, incredible creativity and potential available as soon as you realize that all of these maps merely indicate where your beliefs and disbeliefs in yourself are.

MYRNA: So that’s no different than something you said a while back, and that is, just take a look around me to understand what my belief systems are.

KRIS: Indeed another perspective.

MYRNA: Yeah.

KRIS: And we believe this also drives the point home. Now what is the time?

MARK: 8:41.

KRIS: Indeed, we will leave you to ponder your lovely maps for a short break.

(Break and Kris returns at 8:56 PM)

KRIS: All in all, we are only suggesting another way to perceive what you create and at the same time, get an inkling of who the creator is in this context. As you continue to experiment and explore the vast territory of the Self through the various maps, you will come to know that truly you are without boundaries, without limitations, excepting those that you have already established.

And even those already established boundaries are not who you are, but merely areas that you have decided to limit for one reason or another. Thus, taking all of this into context simply means that you are more than the sum of all of your territories and all of your paths, all of your maps put together. And to that effect, we would love to lead you all into a small practice in adventure.

All you need do is find a comfortable sitting position where your back is supported and your feet are, as best as possible, firmly on the ground or floor, your hands gently resting on your laps and as you listen to the sound of our voice, allow yourselves to also notice the gentle rhythm of your breath, your lungs expanding when you take in air and contracting when you expel air.

And gently following your breath in this way, allow yourselves to also become aware of all other sounds of living in your environment, wherever you may be….and perhaps you can also pay a little bit of attention to the way your body is being supported right now, your back, your legs, your feet, comfortably supported….and as you pay attention to all of these things together, allow yourselves to relax very deeply with each breath going into your lungs and out.

And as you continue to allow yourselves to relax deeper and deeper, perhaps you notice a small feeling somewhere in your body, this may be in your hands…perhaps in your feet…your chest…your stomach…..allow that little feeling to continue to expand in conjunction with deeper and deeper relaxation and allow yourselves to gently feel as if you are floating in your body right now.

And the relaxation deepens as you float down, down deeper into your body….relaxing deeper and deeper still….perhaps this deepening, floating sensation reminds you of when you are floating in a body of water.

As you continue to deepen your relaxation very naturally and deeply, you feel more and more relaxed. And allow yourself to gently, safely, go deeper and deeper still, perhaps even so deep, so relaxed…more relaxed than you have ever allowed yourselves before. You might even consider the possibility that your sensation related to limbs, arms and legs, begins to dissipate as if, even without the idea of arms and legs you still know yourself to be whole.

And deeper still your relaxation continues. And even the idea of your ordinary body as you have known it for so many years, can be put aside and still you have awareness of yourself as if, as awareness, you have always been who you are, and at times you have had arms, legs, limbs, torso, head, body, to express who you are, and other times you have dispensed with the idea of a body.

And pay attention to the contrast of the awareness without a sense of form as you understand it, and then awareness within form, as when you have a body. Pay attention to each state…..(Long pause)….And gently now turn your attention back towards your present state with your body, with your two arms, your two legs, torso, head, etc. and notice that you can still recognize yourself as being distinct from your body whilst manifesting your body.

And in that deep, deep state of relaxation, know that you are an immortal, eternal consciousness awareness in that the body you now have is but one of many in different times and spaces. And in a moment we will count from five to one. At one, you will open your eyes, fully conscious, awake and aware in your usual sense of the words, feeling refreshed and good about yourself in every way.

Now, gently, you might like to take a nice, deep breath simply to give the body extra oxygen….Five, four…allow all normal regular sensations to return to your body. Three, you may wiggle your fingers and toes, two… and one….return, fully awake, eyes open wide, and conscious in your experience, feeling good and refreshed in every way, knowing that you can repeat this small exercise any time you so desire it and at any time, whether you repeat this exercise or not, you can tune into that portion of yourselves that is beyond time, space or physical body, but focused within, within its atoms and molecules, giving it energy.

And we trust that you have enjoyed this small practice. We highly suggest you do not apply it while driving! Other than that, enjoy the experience and we thank you for your lovely consideration and kind-heartedness.

MARK: Kris has now left the building.

BRIAN: Man, I wanted to comment on that!

MARK: Go ahead!

BRIAN: All right, I’ll tell you what: It actually very much felt without form, but it was aware-ized energy, like a ball of energy and I just wrote down, “Like a bullet shot out of a gun, that I was aware of self with no linear time, just literally in the spacious moment, no lives, just aware-ized energy.” Very cool!

MARK: Did that work for you, Anya?

ANYA: That was great! I experienced very similar to what Brian did. I tried at one point to focus on the body, but it was an effort to do so. So would that be the non-dual, or something close to a state of non-duality?

PAUL: That was the idea.

BRIAN: I would almost say it was without form, yet very aware of self as an idea. I keep going back to Seth as he said you’re literally an idea of yourself, just an idea. Like… ‘All That Is’ is an idea that forever expands….so as aware-ized energy and aware-ized self, is forever within expansion…through experience, through action…

ANYA: Brian did you feel you as you, or did you feel you as just a part of you…just dissolved in….

BRIAN: No, I felt me still as me, but with a lot of other energy around it, but still very aware of self. Not an egotistical self, but just self as aware-ized energy. Self, creating as you go along.

ANYA: I wanted to ask Lisa about something she mentioned before, maybe she’s not willing to share that, but she said she had dreams where she said she felt like she was experiencing that state in between duality and non-duality. I wondered if she cares to mention or comment on that?

LISA: For me the meditation was….it’s hard to describe….but I’m not really sure where I was, but I do remember coming back, because for the moment we were kind of aware-ized energy, I didn’t feel any of the things that have been bothering me in my body and as soon as we got back, the pain that I’ve been experiencing in my jaw came back full blown. It was very strange. I was like, tingling all over. I can’t really describe it any more than that.

BRIAN: It’s almost difficult to put it in the syntax of human language, because it is just such a feeling, a feeling-tone that’s tough to put into words, when you’re in that state.

PAUL: That’s right. As soon as you put it into language it’s in a third person form, you are referring to it in the past.

BRIAN: Exactly.

PAUL: No longer in the present experiencing that state. Now it’s third person syntax. The map. You’re mapping it. You’re simply sharing your map of it. But you’re not…you can’t share the “I” space, the first person experience of it, that’s the pure beauty of it, and I guess….well, I don’t guess, I know that the traditions, the wisdom traditions say that that IS-ness, that aware-ized energy, is really All That Is and it’s the same for all of us, there’s just one of us in that room, in each of our rooms. There’s just IS-ness.

BRIAN: Exactly Paul. Remember what I alluded to awhile back about how thoughts create worlds, as each of us are All That Is in that aware-ized energy, you can literally also create not just yourself, but entire worlds in the most basic context. It’s like we each, as an idea of All That Is, are continually expanding upon All That Is, so it’s forever outward movement.

PAUL: Yet, there’s a simultaneous inward current.

BRIAN: Exactly. Inward and outward, like the analogy of the shoreline… Waves crashing on the beach and then receding. Sort of like my hairline!

(Laughter)

PAUL: (Chuckling) Me too!

ANYA: So basically, Kris’ answer to the question I had for him about frameworks, trying to be attached to that…so we were in Framework 2?… while experiencing that is-ness?

PAUL: I think you can connect this to every framework and quadrant actually, as you probe. The whole notion of frameworks is dualistic to the core, so in a non-dual state or stage, there’s no framework, there’s no quadrant….and yet there is, in paradox. There’s a stage, obviously, if you’re still physically focused and in a non-dual stage….then that’s an interesting thing…I can’t speak to that in my own experience, I can only speak to it as temporary states that come and go.

BRIAN: It didn’t feel like you were in a framework at all. It felt like everything just WAS….or as Kris says, you just ARE. It was like no….I actually had a feeling of the nested-ness of all the frameworks into just….coalescing into just one. The feeling you get when you’re aware-ized energy is that there is no framework, you just ARE.

PAUL: Right, and here’s another way to conceptualize it too: that sense of awareness of just awareness/is-ness….it doesn’t change, whether you are in waking state, dreaming state, lucid dream state, altered state, non-dual state, it is constant, that is the ground of the essential consciousness unit. That’s your awareness all the time.

(Recording ends here.)

Detailed Roll Call:
Toronto: Serge (Joseph), Mark (Philip), Myrna (Shara-Leene), John (Sohars), and Olga,
California: Paul (Janaki) and Jo (Rosalie)
Delaware: Brian (El-don), Cathy (Segova), Jen (Alma) and Ellen (Kwaa’Ji)
Oregon: Lisa (Lauromar)
Hawaii: Tom (Desire)
Utah: Anya (Greensleeves)

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