The Great Experiment in Consciousness

August 29, 2005

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois
Transcribed by Ellen Gilbert (Kwaa’Ji)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on August 29 2005
© Copyright 2005 Avion Rising Inc.

Roll call: In Toronto: Serge (Joseph), Mark (Philip)

In Castaic: Paul H. (Janaki), Jo (Rosalie), Ester (Benata), and Paul T. (Antolian)

In Oregon: Norm (Ambrose), Reta (Leihuu), and Janie

[MARK’S NOTES: Norm and Reta were absent from the last Dinner & A Dead Guy session because it was their 50th anniversary. Their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren put on a weekend long celebration for them which included a series of 2ft x 3ft photos of them over the course of five decades or more. There were even pictures of them as infants. This was discussed in the 'pre-talk'.]

(Session begins at 8:15 PM)

KRIS: Now we thank you for your consideration and we trust that you are all strapped in! (Group laughs) Safety belts must be worn at all times.

We gather that more interesting dialogue has followed the last two evenings, and that discussions have proven both to be inspiring, evocative, sometimes passionate, and hopefully revealing. These discussions have far more bite to them than you can initially surmise. It is far more complex than you see at first glance. And they — the material, the words, the exchanges, the discourses all lead with — we believe the expression is “subtext”, which is material that appears between the words and the lines.

And in that line we will continue with a question as the opening for the evening and the question is indeed a take-off from Janaki’s (Paul H.’s) work with a slightly different slant. That question is: “Which ‘you’ is YOU in this moment?”

Such a discussion can and should widen the perspective, because it not only requires, but indeed we would dare say DEMANDS a widening of perspective and awareness in order to facilitate grokking such a discussion, and in order to take advantage of its contents. It is almost necessary that you put aside rationalizations, intellectualizations, without doing away with them. Or we would say, put aside, ready to bring them into foray, but not do away with them at all.

It also requires an awareness of intuitive, emotional, and feeling rationalities. In other words, a better re-combination of the manner and the way in which your intellectual, rational, intuitive, emotional aspects have been compartmentalized and literally separated over decades and centuries and eons of time. Each developed fully in its own capacity, but unfortunately the Caesarean sections performed to divide these portions of the psyche have never been brought back. There has been little attempt to reunite them.

By developing a sharper awareness of which “you” is being you this moment will definitely assist in bringing these different aspects of the psyche together and thus open the door to what has been described as the Higher Intellect (a Seth term).

In other words, for as long as humankind keeps the divisions and the separations all artificially cultivated, as long as these divisions are kept in their separate nests, you may indeed continue to feel that you are pulled to one side or another, that you must view yourself, your situation, your reality, the whole of the world in one or the other, but not both. You may indeed even continue to create artificial divisions which only enhance the shadowy side of the belief system of duplicity, and indeed nearly so preventing yourselves from enjoying a level of fulfillment and the richness of being that escapes you most of the time, because you are still acting as separate beings, even though you are a couched in one flesh.

So again, which “you” is being YOU this moment?

The most pertinent, valid method of perception, as a means of analogy: consider our dear friends in Oregon: How many children do you have? (Pause, then addressing Mark:) Perhaps they did not hear.

MARK: I’m not sure that I heard.

KRIS: Our friends in Oregon — how many children do they have?

MARK: Did you hear that Norm?

NORM: Oh — five children.

KRIS: And how many grandchildren?

RETA: Twenty-one.

NORM: And three great-grandchildren.

KRIS: Indeed, now when you were a child, when you were children, you related to children as children and you related to adults as only a child can, correct?

NORM: Right.

KRIS: As you are now great-grandparents, somehow or other you have undergone different processes of individuation so that as you went through your different stages you left behind your own childhoods. You became young adults, you became middle adults, you are now mature adults and now after having raised your own children, you looked at your grandchildren, and now you can see and enjoy your great-grandchildren. Yet you do not relate to your children, your grandchildren, or your great-grandchildren as children — you relate to them as mature adults, correct? [From the perspective of mature adults and not children.]

RETA: Yes, except for the babies.

KRIS: Indeed. However, having yourselves gone through the processes of individuation through your own childhood, youth, adulthood, middle adulthood, and mature adulthood, you are able to relate to all of the stages. You are able to relate to your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren as befits the situation, but from the perspective of the mature adult. Does that make sense?

NORM: Yes.

KRIS: So you are somehow or other able to juggle an entire spectrum of perceptions all at once to deal with the situations that demand your attention, your focus, and details. Is that correct?

RETA: Yeah, that’s right.

KRIS: Indeed! You have learned through your own maturing processes how to manage and bring home your various perspectives as the situations demand of you.

RETA: Most of the time.

KRIS: Can you repeat?

RETA: Most of the time we are able to use our background to relate correctly. Sometimes we’re not! Sometimes we’re TOO adult for young children. (Norm chuckles) Sometimes we’re too adult to tell other adults who are “too adult” what we think!

NORM: (laughs in recognition of the “generation gap.”)

MARK: (laughs) Oh, I don’t think so!

NORM: We reserve our thoughts quite a bit. This modern world is different than our world when we were children, so we have to be quite open-minded.

MARK: And sometimes you feel that you’re not, is that what you’re saying?

NORM: Yes, yes.

RETA: Sometimes THEY’RE not.

NORM: We realize the world is expanding and changing and developing and it’s doing a great job of doing that, so we’re hoping that everything will come out all right.

RETA: And you have young adults especially in their teens and twenties that are SURE they know everything, and it’s not until they get in their 40′s and 50′s that they say “Oh yeah, I should have known that. Why didn’t you tell me?” (laughter)

KRIS: (To Mark) Now, we do not wish to detract from the presentation, but they understand the point?

MARK: Yes, they do.

KRIS: Indeed then, the idea behind this is to bring to your awareness – to ALL of you listening — that without necessarily drastically changing, transforming the individual that you are, you are able to maintain the authenticity of your relative self and still be secure in the validity of your being whilst relating to a number of situations. You do not, for instance, play with the child and then go to the office and STILL play as the child. You engage the adult in you. Even when you play with the child, there is still the adult taking on the persona to play with the child. Your identity is never threatened, and you are able to flow in and out of these various mindsets on a daily continual basis.

But you still must acknowledge that as you go through life’s stages, you engage a specific platform of moral, ethical value convictions, each dealing with the relevant stage of your perceptions, and as you mature over years and decades, the stages of the past do not get lost, but they become innately entrenched into the belief structures of your value convictions. They become part of who you are, though you may not necessarily revert to childhood or teenager, even if you are 50 years of age. Even though you know exactly what being a child or a teenager is. But you do that from your adult perspective.

The human stages of development are almost universal in that respect. You do not for instance, see an adult born. You only see children, infants being born. Even at the most basic physical level, those stages are apparent and only the blind may think — and we are not referring to those who are physically blind — only the BLINDED may think they can be born as full adults, or that there will be fully grown adults born. You have an innate understanding of those various stages of life and the same still applies in respect to the evolution and the exchanges from the Essence to focus perceptions and from focus perception to Essence perception, to multi-Essence perception, to multidimensional perceptions. And each perception stage IS completely valid and authentic, and from the Essence perspective there is never any conclusion that the focus perceptions are invalid.

They are respected because they deal with YOUR reality — the reality you created out of your own perceptions. Therefore it is important to recognize who is you that you are in the moment. And from the focus perspective, there are very few individuals who may occasionally gather an authentic perception from the Essence side of the fence, though it is possible to understand it intellectually; and an intellectual understanding is not the equivalent of an AUTHENTIC perception.

Even Laverne and Shirley cannot claim such perceptions, but only from the intellectual side of the fence. However, there is indeed a method that can allow such widened perspectives to actually, authentically touch the focus personality, the expression of Essence’s life, but it must reach BEYOND the mere intellectualization and rationalization OR isolating the feeling of the feelings — and that is [done] by bringing into your awareness the complete set of perceptive tools: the intuitions, the imagination, the feelings WITH the intellectual, rational aspects.

[MARK’S NOTES: Laverne and Shirley are two people who have challenged Kris in the past. They appear in this transcript: http://www.krischronicles.com/transcripts2/krisonkris-june21-04.html]

This is no easy feat, but again, by paying specific attention, by using the Triple ‘A’ method as an example — to Acknowledge, Address and Accept — it is entirely possible that the solid, authentic foundation of recognizing which “you” is YOU in this moment, you therefore will be less prone to be torn between the various factions of the self and more easily able to authenticate and validate exactly which you is you as you deal with various situations.

It is indeed a fine thing to say, and indeed a lovely thing to say that “I am Essence,” but it is also true to say “I am also expression of Essence.” Neither statement is a lie and neither statement ALONE is complete. Each of you deal with a variety of paradoxes and paradigms on a daily basis, and you have no hesitation in making choices, decisions, based on a variety of discernments about what may be necessary, unnecessary, healthy, unhealthy, valuable, not valuable, good and bad for your own personal selves.

And indeed, the more truthful you are about such exercises, the easier it becomes to integrate the variously divorced portions of the self — the intellect, the rational mind, the intuitions, the imagination, the feelings and so on — because the very foundation of your world and the very blueprint for your reality is itself not dependent on one at the expense of the other, but on all of these parts of self artfully, creatively woven together to create a magnificent tapestry that you call Life and Existence. And indeed, without the design of your personal existence woven into this tapestry, the tapestry itself would be most bland indeed.

Therefore it is important to consider which “you” is being YOU in the moment. Which “you” is dealing with any given situation, and how can the whole You be reconciled? (Forcefully and deliberately:) That is part of the ‘Great Experiment of Consciousness’ each and every one of you have enjoined to participate in! You have freely given of yourselves to enrich the entire spectrum of consciousness with such an experiment. How to function and create whilst pretending that the entire self is separate, made of divisions, knowing full well that at an ultimate level there are no divisions.

But which “you” can you be with these various understandings? Which “you” opens its eyes in the morning and looks at the world? When you can begin such a process, it will become apparent that prior to that moment you had been functioning, but not as completely as you can experience it. Even though all of these stages are innately available to you, you must still actualize, you must still bring your awareness to that stage, and that is part of the experimentation of consciousness.

Again, the question is simple: Which “you” is YOU in this moment? Now what is the time?

MARK: 8:50.

KRIS: Then indeed, we will give you — whichever you — a nice break! (Group laughter)

(Break begins at 8:51)

RETA: Paul, remind me of what the Triple ‘A’ s are?

PAUL: It’s Acknowledge, Address, and Accept. It’s a variation of Elias’ – what we call NIRAA: Notice, Identify, Recognize, Address too, and Accept. It’s a rather interesting endorsement of Kris’ of Elias, and vice versa — that he’s using that as the method of widening awareness to develop this High Intellect, which is a Seth concept that opens the door to the re-integration of feelings, emotions, intuition, imagination with intellect and reason to create a higher faculty. It was also interesting that he went into stages of development tonight. He used physical stages which everyone can relate to –

MARK: — And just to stop you for a second, Paul, I think it’s rather interesting that just at Norm and Reta’s anniversary, they were presented with a series of photos highlighting THEIR development.

PAUL: Excellent point, Mark.

NORM: That is right, because we even had baby pictures, when we were six months old (chuckles all around) and 8 years old, 12, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70… 75.

Paul suggested that Norm and Reta scan and send some of those photos detailing their developmental stages to include as an appendix to this session. Mark said it would be fun to include what Norm and Reta were each thinking about, what their worldviews were, during each stage represented within the photos.

NORM: It was a great review of what the big question tonight is: who’s the “you” in You and taking a look back there [in the past]. I had distinctly different lives at different times, and so [the party] was a great review. And I’ll tell you what: I got emotional a couple of times, so emotional that I had tears in my eyes.

PAUL: A beautiful thing.

NORM: It really is.

RETA: I guess I’d advise us ALL to do that — to go start digging through your photos.

JANIE: I have a photo of me as a baby, in my bedroom, that I often look at and pray, and try to send — from my future self — to heal the child that I was, to be stronger – you know, have stronger lungs, better ears, and a stronger nervous system — to send to that child that was me, that is still me, and try to… from my future self…to kind of help the child so it can help me.

NORM: And that’s why she’s so beautiful today.

PAUL: That’s a beautiful thing too. There was an example of a private session that Ellen Gilbert had with Kris where she was aware of a presence communicating with her, or just present during a very traumatic event in her early 20′s or thereabouts, and Kris confirmed that it was exactly her future self sending healing energy back to her during that traumatic episode.

JANIE: Wow! Really?

PAUL: So it was sort of one of the first examples in a transcript — I mean we’ve heard this as a theoretical thing before with Seth and Elias and Kris, but to have Ellen offer it up anecdotally first, and then Kris kind of connect the dots was very powerful. So Janie, that’s just a beautiful thing, it really works, and it’s a helpful practice to do for our past selves.

JANIE: I’d actually chosen [those particular] pictures to work on the various stages of my life you know, from a little older, then a little older, in the child level, because I know from [reading] Kris and Seth too that something traumatic had happened to me between the ages of 10 and 12 and 14 that I should explore that in regard to my cough and the feeling of suppression so I resolved before that even that I was going to be working on those other aspects of what I was in the growing up years that were tough times for me so I wanted my present self, my future self to heal the child, tell it that I love it and it’s never alone and I’m always here.

PAUL: Exactly.

JANIE: I had a communication from MY future self as a very old lady out on a walk and it was a very, very realistic dream in which I had died on a walk — and I was an old lady and I said to someone, “Well, that was easy!” and some aspect of myself said to me, “I didn’t die from cancer, there was no atomic attack, there was no war, that’s right, that didn’t’ happen!” I said, “I’ll be darned,” I was amazed at this whole thing and I woke up and said “Well! My future self just talked to me — or my higher self — after I died.” That I was just going to pop right out of my body. That was a probability, I’m sure, but — (cuts off as Kris comes back)

(Break ends at 9:02 PM)

KRIS: The more you familiarize yourselves with your own differing stages, the more you’ll become knowledgeable about which psychological stages of differentiation and non-differentiation that you simultaneously bring about. Even though we spoke of the physical stages of human growth from childhood to youth through the various stages of adulthood, there are still psychological stages to take into consideration. Because even though one many have an adult body, one may be psychologically at the stage of the youth or the teenager. Do you understand?

PAUL: Oh yeah!

KRIS: And there are occasions when the teenager is psychologically at a stage — a certain stage — of adulthood. Thus, becoming aware of the various psychological stages of development can also greatly modify and add to the dimensions relevant to which you is you in this moment. Psychologically, you have different stages of growth when the child grows towards individuation from his or her attachments to the parents, gradually moving away from that attachment and establishing his or her own identity. Even though the elements of that identity may be evident even in the small child, they are still mostly covered over by the child’s identification with the parent. Do you understand?

(Yes)

Now, as that child becomes its own individuality, then various stages of psychological growth also take place. And as the individual matures, different psychological perspectives come into play. And when there is development of awareness over and above one’s own physical maturation, then the phenomenon of — for lack of a better word — spiritual growth processes kick in. And the identification of the individual can move from merely self-oriented — which would be a junior stage, that can on its own also mature — but those stages can move beyond, into one’s community, into what we in the past referred to as the “other,” is also viewed as an extension of the egocentric perception and a maturity establishing itself by being able to empathize and relate to the lives of the “other” because there is an understanding that the OTHER is also a part of SELF.

That may extend to one’s immediate family, one’s extended family, and to one’s (pause) external family, for lack of a better word. From immediate to extended to external. These can represent three nested psychological stages that bring the individual different kinds of perceptions that are each valid and can even be combined as a singular multi-perception, such as individuals who are considered highly evolved. You would call [them] “Mahatma” meaning “great soul” and mahatmas are not necessarily limited to the male gender. This is the area where religious terminology classifies individuals as sects and it is not that the preliminary foundational or egoic stages of growth have been eliminated, but they have been indeed expanded and built upon to widen the perception.

Then there are other stages of psychological maturity that go even beyond external self, or the circle of external selves, to include other life forms up to and including the environment and the whole planet. But each one stage is not insulated from the other. There are always threads that link all of them together, and depending upon which you is you in this moment, your perceptions might be perched or part of any one of those stages. As long as you do not forget that you are not an insular self obliged to be this you or that you, unique; but that you are an amalgamation of all of these “you’s”. And these are still psychological stages that are pertinent to your relevant physical imagery. There are other stages of awareness that go even beyond those extended perceptions.

And these extended perceptions beyond physical imagery deal with another kind of imagery that is “projected self” — meaning other expressions of Essence that are projected with their own timeline imagery. In good old-fashioned vernacular: re-incarnated selves: those expressions of Essence that are involved in their own line of development, perhaps with a completely different historical period, or even other probable line of development. And these, focus personalities can also tap into. And this can bring a greater foundation of wisdom and knowledge.

But what is the point of saying that you are aware of SO many other focuses, than all of what you can claim about them is that they are all famous! (Group laughter)

Are you able to extend your perceptions into one of these Expressions of Essence who is suffering in childbirth, and may even die in childbirth? Or one who is living in squalor and poverty? Or one who is, despite living in riches, still suffering from loneliness and unfulfilled dreams?

These various projections can also greatly enrich the you that is you in the moment, but YOU have to acknowledge, address and accept which “you” is YOU in this moment. Beyond that specific stage there can be openings towards relations and exchanges with the primary Essence body. These usually occur in dream states and in some instances even, of direct cognitive perception at the focus level. And again, it can be truly enriching to the focus personality, because such degrees of perceptions and awareness can be utilized to bring together the various disparate sections of the psyche that you identify as the intellect, the rational mind, the conscious mind, the reasoning mind, and the intuitive, emotional, imaginative, feeling self.

When you cultivate those types of exchanges, you can directly benefit from the experiences and there is no need to fear that your precious identity, always nested in the ego construction, is at risk, because with encouragement it will actually assist you and not hinder you as is commonly entertained.

Now do realize that we have attempted to create at least a synopsis that you can work with. These issues are never 100% clear-cut and black and white, but contain nuances at all stages. But at least we have attempted to give you something that you may relate to and to work with in a tangible fashion and from this point on, examine more clearly perhaps, which “you” is you in this moment. Now what is the time?

MARK: 9:20.

KRIS: Then we suggest a small break and perhaps we will ask that YOU ask your questions. You did not know there were tests! (Group laughs) So enjoy your small break and then we will open to the questions on which “you” is you in this moment.

(Break begins at 9:21)

PAUL: He’s on a roll tonight!

MARK: Uh-HUH!

PAUL: [We're] tripping over here.

MARK: Something that I’ve been realizing tonight especially is I’m starting to be able to pick up what his topics are IN ADVANCE without knowing it. It’s only in hindsight now that I know it, but through my dreams and through the thoughts that I entertain through out the course of the last few days, he’s taking these things and running with them without….like I couldn’t have told you two hours ago that “Oh, this is what he’s going to talk about,” but now in hindsight it’s like — neat!

PAUL T.: Like Deja Vu all over again.

MARK: Yeah.

JO: Maybe with practice, Mark, you’ll learn to pinpoint what’s coming up from your grocery list and all the other –

MARK: Exactly! That’s what’s always floored me about Serge – is that we could be on the subway train and he says, “Oh, I just got wind of what Kris is going to talk about and I’m pissed off because I didn’t want to know!” (Group laughs) Now I’M getting wind of it, but I don’t always realize that that’s what it is.

JO: Right — because you have so much information every day.

PAUL: Yeah.

MARK: Yeah.

JO: But maybe you’ll learn to identify –

MARK: I agree, and that’s a hope or a desire –

JO: If you really do want –

PAUL: Yeah, that’s a Pandora’s Box — it’s a double-edged sword. It’s also this idea atmosphere/idea complex concept — it’s playing itself out over the months here. He introduced that what – ? – back in April or May, and I keep coming back to that on my own, so what you’re doing is picking up on the idea complex. Some part of it is becoming prominent and you’re picking up on that — and of course Serge has a direct line, (laughs) as direct as it can be! But we all have a direct line too in theory — to an energy deposit or whatever you want to call it, that voodoo that Kris does do with us.

SERGE: I take it that Kris is exercising his mojo?

(Group laughter)

PAUL: Yeah! He’s — yeah, I’m kind of stunned tonight because he’s summarized about the last six weeks of my writing and work and conversation — you know, not over-personalizing it to me but – this idea complex – I’m recognizing parts of it that have been significant to me in part of it and he’s tying bits – a lot of that in – in different ways.

MARK: I had a wonderful visual about three days ago that came out tonight. Kris just commented on it tonight as well, Paul, if I could take a decade of my life and highlight certain portions — and this can go right down to within a day of your life, an hour of your life, a week, a year, a decade — but if you take certain thought patterns, or certain…um… the way you feel about yourself and give it a color — I was thinking of a highlighter — so if I were to say OK, the first decade of my life there’s blues, pinks, reds and the second decade there’s blues, pinks, reds, and so on — now you pull all of those pinks out and you put them all together and throw in simultaneous time that those all are thrust into your life from Essence throughout — that’s a concept. Does that make sense?

PAUL: Yeah.

MARK: It’s easier to draw that than it is to explain it over the phone.

PAUL: I get an impression about dream states and dream history, dream feeling tones, in complimenting physical life and physical history too — so I’m just paralleling your perception there with dream history, because I’ve been studying dreams since 1979 and have kept a journal. I don’t do it every day anymore — I can’t, I’d be stressed out — but I do my best to remember and track the different things, the feeling tones, and that’s part of the whole “which you is you in the moment” thing.

MARK: I had a really interesting dream — I think it was last night or this morning — and there was an invisible wall of masks – all identical masks, sort of like Phantom of the Opera — but like a grid of masks, maybe eight across and ten down — and suddenly one mask would push itself out and sort of be highlighted, and then retract, and then another one would push itself out and be highlighted, and so on. And at first I didn’t understand the dream, but now I do: all of the different aspects of Self, or all the different “You’s”.

PAUL: Those masks are the different You’s!

MARK: Exactly.

PAUL: Good connection! See, and Kris is aware of that dream of yours and he’s integrating that into the –

MARK: Here he comes.

(Break ends at 9:26 PM)

KRIS: Now since the notion of idea complexes and idea atmospheres has been brought up twice, we figured we might as well take that ball and run with it as well! (Chuckles all around) Now do keep in mind that each one of you IS a complex of ideas about yourselves, about who and what you think you are. And this stems from a deeper idea atmosphere at another completely different stage of awareness from which the various idea complexes of your own self emerge into the physical paradigm ready to engage its various value convictions and this Philip transmitted beautifully through the dream state to its own Expression of Essence (Mark).

The imagery is quite pertinent, thus it behooves each and every one of you to consider that at any given time, any “you” that thinks it’s YOU is merely an idea about you. And though you are always an authentic, valid self, the different you’s or masks are mere idea constructions exercised through the potency of your ego construction, engaging the beautiful imagery that you call physical reality which, as you understand, is the result of your convictions, your feeling tones, your entire psychological structure and yet this still only expresses an idea complex about yourself.

And through such endeavors and practices, you can begin to de-emphasize the apparent disparity between the various sections of yourself, such as the intellect, rational and reasoning mind, having to function separately between the sometimes untrusting intuitions, emotions and feelings, etc. and bring about a very different view of physical imagery construction in such a manner that, for instance, not only would you understand intellectually how the other is YOU, but that your empathic, intuitive, feeling nature would also help you LIVE that experience. And if you remember, we began emphasizing such things very early into this year and a little bit before with the tsunami disaster in the Far East. Do you recall?

(Yes)

Now your own nation (U.S.A.) is experiencing one of the worst hurricane disasters in its history, or at least in living memory. And you — depending which you is you that listens to this — have a choice: you can say “Ah, but these people, it was their CHOICE, it was their preference and they are responsible for their reality,” and think you have made a grand philosophical and humanitarian statement and walk away knowing that somehow, somewhere, your statement has fallen short of the true nature of your being. OR, the other choice you also have is to understand that you as well as them, because they are you, have chosen to explore a specific slice of the reality pie for YOU, so that you may grow in empathy and outreaching out and knowing that they and YOU create that reality.

You may give them assistance and support with any means that you have available, be it from the heart, or physically, or even financially, but that you would be as empathetic and as empathizing towards them as you would wish they might one day empathize if you decide that you are going to explore a similar adventure with them. Thus, not only stopping short at the intellectual level, but actually engaging the emotional, imaginative, empathic YOU; knowing that together you are all exploring reality whatever the word means to you and they, for indeed they are you.

The other is you, which means that you are the other! Do not forget that part of the equation. The other may be you, but you are also the other.

Now then, we promised you, whichever you happens to be present, that we would deal with some of your questions.

JO: I have a couple of questions and a comment — this is Rosalie — first of all, I’d like to say I express being a ma-hot-MAMA! (Group laughter)

KRIS: Now is that “hot mama” or “ma-hot-mama”? (More laughter)

JO: That would be Ma-hot-mama, yeah! The male version, only with an extra M-A at the end. I believe, and I’d like you to confirm if I’m accurate, that a lot of times when people quote Elias, that what we need to remember — it’s been my impression, and maybe it’s even been said — that Elias and his agenda of least distortion really talks to us a lot of the time from an Essence perspective and that when he says things like “there is no good or evil,” — and I’m paraphrasing — but when he says things like that, [he's speaking] from THAT perspective and not necessarily from our human perspective as we live our lives.

KRIS: Indeed, because in almost every daily situation on a daily, consistent basis, you utilize discernment in one way or another to determine what is good for you to eat, and what is not good for you to eat.

JO: And I realize too, in looking at the “Rose-colored Glasses” transcript, that illness is something that we judge, but isn’t inherently good or evil.

KRIS: Indeed, illnesses are entirely your own. Illnesses are utilized for a great variety of purposes. Some people develop illnesses in order to gain favor from a deity. Others may develop illness to manipulate those in their families or environment. Others may still develop illness to get back at someone. Others may develop a passing illness at one time or another because they are unable to deal with a specific situation and therefore need to retreat into their own environment and so on and so forth.

The blanket statement is that you are all victims to germs and bacteria, but on closer examination of the drama that unfolds, they also help determine what is the motivation when someone is denying their motivation — and it may be an entirely benign motivation, but it is still motivation nonetheless. Does that make sense?

JO: Yes, and if I could have one other question, before the session started I had a feeling of what I can most accurately describe as dissociation and it’s a feeling that’s somewhat familiar and it frightens me because I feel like I’m out of control, and it’s a familiar feeling, I think I’ve experienced it throughout my lifetime, but I think this is what you’re talking about as we move into unfamiliar territory and letting go of our egos and our sense of control. Is that an accurate interpretation of what I was experiencing?

KRIS: Up to a certain point. The standard cliché interpretation of dissociation is somewhat misleading. From our perspective it is different. From your perspective it appears that you are losing touch with the immediate ground of your being, correct?

JO: Right, correct.

KRIS: However, from our perspective, as long as the dissociative state is not clinical, and you know what that means –?

JO: Yes.

KRIS: But under ordinary, loving circumstances, the dissociation is more of a — we would have to say — meta-sociation. Not a diminishing of perceptions, but a WIDENING of perceptions that only seem unfamiliar until it eventually becomes familiar territory, a widening of perspective. Does that make sense?

JO: Very much, thank you.

KRIS: So when next any of you feel meta-perceptions, meta-sociations in that sense, instead of triggering the old fears, imagine what kind of extra-perceptions you are noticing. That is the purpose, that is why you engage the process and in some respects it is often very ironic that people who search for dissociative states at one time or another in order to gain access to a wider range of wisdom and knowledge, actually are fearful when it happens for real. In other words, when the Universe pulls your bluff, notice what you do. Does that make sense?

JO: Yes, thank you.

KRIS: Indeed.

JANIE: I have a comment. I’m grateful that you talked about the attitudes of what’s going on with the weather and the hurricane because on one hand I noticed that — I do this meditation called “The Twin Hearts Meditation” from Chronic Healing in which we bless the Earth and we bless the people of the Earth, and all those who are sad and depressed and all the conflicts — I do that one — but on the other hand, I found that in my own personal daily life I’m thinking “Why are they such fools to live in a place that makes them so vulnerable” and so when you spoke of what you [did] it gave me a whole different perspective on things that was very important to me and I want to thank you for that.

(Kris asks Mark to repeat Janie’s comments as the connection is barely audible. Mark does an excellent job of paraphrasing.)

KRIS: Indeed, these are even very valid reasons why even large segments of a population may live in an area that is known for its geological or meteorological instability because these people that live in those areas often like to live with an edge, like the excitement that there is the possibility at any time that they may have to head for the hills!

MARK: And another duplicity here is that even though these areas are subject to weather conditions or natural disasters, they are actually very beautiful and joyous places to live! The coastlines are very breathtaking.

JANIE: Every time things are destroyed we pick up the cost for it, and we’re not even living there, and I guess that has been a disturbing factor to me — it ends up costing us in taxes and stuff, as they keep re-building things, but now I’ve got a different perspective.

MARK: It also brings about a state of change.

JANIE: Yeah.

MARK: Not only in how we live and where we live, but it brings about political change etc., and how the world changes with that.

KRIS: Now, we request each one of you this evening to join us with your minds, your hearts, your energies, your intellect, and your passion, and send your thoughts, your energy, your reassurances to those who are this evening challenged and traumatized by their situation, whether in Louisiana, in Daipur, in Africa, in China, or anywhere on this planet where you exist as the other — that may be in need of your assistance. And from the depths of your being, may you be enticed and willing to send all of the blessings that you can send, both to them and to you, because you are both! And with that WE send them and you our own deep, heartfelt blessings, and may you all have dreams of wonderment, enchantment, and blessings to you.

ALL: Thank you, Kris.

(Session ends at 9:50)

The Eternal NOW (Published in the second edition of the newsletter)

August 22, 2005

Note: Transcript Missing…

The Art of Being Passionate

August 15, 2005

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois
Transcribed by Ellen Gilbert (Kwaa’Ji)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on August 15, 2005
© Copyright 2005 Avion Rising Inc.

Roll call: In Toronto Serge (Joseph), Mark (Philip), Myrna (Shara-Leene), John (Sohars), Franco, Eveline, and Alice (Miluumea)

In Castaic: Paul H. (Janaki), Jo (Rosalie), Paul T. (Antolian), Ester (Benata), Jene (Mildor), Celia, Tom C.

(Session begins at 7:57 PM.)

KRIS: Now then, our humble acknowledgement for your generous considerations this evening. And indeed, the last session, as you have pointed out, was passionate. It was filled with energy and the fallout has yet to be cleared; and that, as the lady says, is a good thing.

It is important to remember that simply listening to words, or reading words, is not enough. You have to become passionate and not placid about your understanding. If you read words, or hear words, and think that the words will replace your position, thereby discounting your own position, then you do yourselves a disservice because you do not acknowledge your present position which may NEED your acknowledgement in order to be transformed to the next stage of your experience.

It cannot merely stay in the head. If all of this material was meant to fill your heads with words, there are other means to do this, and you will not undertake the exploration of these words within the physical reality. Your physical existence in itself is a thing of great passion. It is a MASTERFUL work of art unmatched even by the most passionate of artists. And they do not read words, or listen to others and then claim they have done the works of art.

Michelangelo, Da Vinci, and all of the great masters got their fingers dirty, their hands dirty. They were, most of them, intent on a passionate expression of their inner visions and they often lived life to the extremes, and were able to convey their passion in a manner that has touched the world since. That is why they are highly regarded, and their works are prized often beyond compare.

And most of you great artists of consciousness turn around, look at yourselves, look at your bodies, look at your lives, and often spit on it, thinking it is inadequate, thinking it is less than desirable; and something else, something better, must come along to uplift your supposed drab experiences and lives. And you have forgotten that the echoes of time and the stars, the bones buried in your planet – they are all part of your precious experience. And no other individual can so masterfully, and beautifully, and lovingly express their passions the way that each of you can.

(Forcefully and intently) And then you often turn around and believe that, instead of being filled with a great joy and a great love, that you are filled with iniquity and you are flawed. So we come along and try to point out that there are times in your lives when you CAN see the beauty and the joy that exists in your passion for life. And if we can remind only one of you of that life and passion that lives within your very bones, then we consider OUR purpose fulfilled.

As for last session’s excitement, it involved each of you, present and not, as a reminder that there are times when the apparent discrepancies in your thinking and in your being have somehow or other to be reconciled. And you have to come to terms with the Acknowledging, the Addressing, and the Accepting of whom and what you are. Not only as Essence, but as those beings who cry when the heart hurts, who cry when the joy is overwhelming, who give birth to your infants, or give life to your infants – when you enjoy creating them and giving them birth. When your elders pass away, and when your generations are birthed, when you have overwhelming challenges, and when you realize that life is a great playground, and every experience in between.

That humble voice that speaks to you now is but an echo of the truths that you often hide and deny yourselves. And we make an attempt to speak that voice within you that urges you to not rest on the seat of your complacency, but instead forge on and realize what wonderful beings that you are, and acknowledge yourselves as such. Whether you have disagreements or not is beside the point. The crux of the issue is that you ACKNOWLEDGE your passion and do not deny it.

That passion is what enticed you, charmed you, enchanted you to create this particular focus and so many others. And with that knowledge you can indeed transform whom you think you are, and in a simple manner, simply reveal to yourselves that you are much more than the sum of all of your parts. That is the heart of the passion that resides in each of you.

Now that we are done with our small lecture, we will give you a small break, a passionate break, and then perhaps we can return and speak about what YOUR life is, by perhaps sharing some more of ours. So do enjoy your break.

(8:10 PM)

Break involved a discussion of the last Dinner & a Dead Guy session (titled “Rose Colored Glasses” which took place on August 1, 2005) and how it sparked Kris’ introductory material this evening on seeking your passion. Jo shared that she had earlier talked to Drew about passion and he had inspired her to write an essay she titled “Romance and Remembrance” in which she is exploring how to keep the passion of new love in a relationship while still retaining all the benefits of a mature love; and questioning oneself about what is it we are all really looking for ultimately.

JO: …so [Kris] is really going into territory here that is very resonant for me. I’m actually writing about that. Outside of ourselves, we project upon other people what we want in a relationship and we don’t think of it in terms of what we can be doing to indulge our passions for life.

Myrna spoke of what passion personally means for her, that it represents having purpose, waking up in the morning feeling good and ready for fun. Another insight that struck her forcefully is that since her attendance at the “Heal the Heart” workshop in April she has begun to see everyone she meets as the “face of consciousness” and a reflection of herself.

Jo spoke of having researched some of Seth’s material recently which delved into love, devotion and sexuality. Sexuality in particular as it expands itself into an expression of those things in life that we put our love and devotion into, such as the work we do in the world, and as a romance with Life itself.

Ester shared that she recently realized that passion has to be expressed from within oneself, before one can find passion outside of oneself, i.e. shared or reflected onto another.

Paul considered how for him the word “intention” came to mind, and how Seth, Elias and Kris have made a typology out of intention – being in touch with one’s intention in terms of meeting one’s purpose in life, what one does each day for fun, for romance, for work or play – simply loving what you do, putting passion into it.

PAUL: I guess I’m just sharing my own personal emphasis with this idea cluster of “Intention” — getting in touch with intention — that allows me to tap into eternity and just bring it through to whatever it is I’m trying to do. It’s not easy, it’s not a magic bullet – I have my bad days – but when I’m having good days, my God, it’s indescribable. A feeling of – you lose track of time, of anything, you’re just immersed in what you’re doing – the ideas you’re exploring, whatever you’re doing.

JO: On Paul’s and my first date, he showed me his music studio at home and said it was his “other woman.” (Group laughter)

PAUL: My passion, some of my OTHER passions.

[ELLEN'S NOTES: Paul's words above about that "zone" you get into when you know you are following your passion really hit a note with me. It's something I've been missing in my life lately, and I knew it, and I realized that it was because I kept falling into certain behavior patterns that I utilized to avoid doing what my heart desired: creatively expressing through art or writing. I had been working on discerning these patterns during the past week or so and had a real epiphany just a couple of days prior to this session while away visiting my folks.

Just one hour before the start of this session, Serge and I spoke on the phone because I wanted to share my revelation with him. It had come about because of what Kris had told me about a past life of mine, and I'd just made the connection as to how that life was influencing me in this Now.

I excitedly shared with Serge that the past life story Kris had related was actually an allegory that beautifully outlined in symbol form the patterns I fall into that consume my energies for creative expression! I was elated over this revelation because it had come clear in a most delightful way. Now that I recognized the pattern, I felt so much more empowered, to begin clearing that block and follow my desire for creative expression; to once again allow myself to feel the joyousness of being in that "zone", that flow of passion.

I was amazed at how Kris had planted those seeds in my awareness at my session, and for them to suddenly blossom and bear fruit in this way. Serge was amused. "It's like your session is still going on," he said. I agreed!

As I was transcribing Kris' words, I knew that not only was he using the events that transpired in the previous Dinner & a Dead Guy to make his point; but he had also eavesdropped on my conversation with Serge and was using my experience to take off on this dissertation about acknowledging - and not denying - your passion. Hearing it felt like the most wonderful encouragement, like a mentor who spreads the icing on the cake of your discovery!]

(Break ends at 8:20 PM)

KRIS: Now as we spoke earlier, we mentioned that merely hearing and reading words from another as being insufficient to bring home the clarity and the passion that is yours already. When the words of another are used to supercede and superimpose your own life experience, and when you deem your own life experience inadequate, superfluous, or beneath notice because you think the words of another are better — even when those words entice you to not discount yourselves — you do yourselves a terrible disservice.

The whole purpose then, is to recognize even contradictory passions, contradictory points of view, so that you may discuss them. Only then, as we hinted, can you reconcile those two worldviews and open up new avenues, new territory of consciousness for yourselves. Merely listening to our words and nodding your heads in agreement may titillate the audience intellectually, but it is what you do in the moments that you do not listen to us that brings about the greatest recognition.

Your relationship with your passion, with your intent — even if in direct and complete disagreement with our own views — is irrelevant. What is relevant is HOW and WHAT you do with your understandings; and not try to squelch your own views, but to allow them to grow so that you can reach beyond your limitations and thus grow in consciousness, in perception, in awareness, and fulfill yourselves as individuals.

Any of the views that you hold, about anything in this very moment are worth every grain of passion and intention you put in them. You must, however, ultimately decide what you keep, and what you leave behind. Not by suppressing yourselves and your emotions, but by cleaning house, by pruning this ever-growing vine of consciousness, not a tree, but a VINE of consciousness, feeding it, giving it the necessary sustenance. Part of that sustenance comes from the passion that occurs with some forms of disagreement, as well as some form of agreement. And together you enrich this vine of consciousness. You allow it to grow, to reach beyond the limitations you have set up for yourselves so that you can then harvest the fruits of that growth, expand the horizons of consciousness.

Part of that expansion of consciousness comes from the simplest things in your Being, such as being aware of your body: recognizing your body consciousness and its situations – its signals and messages to you. Acknowledging its innate wisdom to allow you to flourish, to allow you to keep cultivation this vine of consciousness, working in a partnership whereby both of you will benefit greatly.

You can also benefit by becoming aware of such things that normally escape and may even be considered beneath your observations. Your species, for example, has been on this planet for countless millions, if not billions of years; thus seeing this planet and many others go through varied transformations and changes — upheavals, cataclysms, catastrophes, and so on and so forth — and you have survived.

And each and every time you survive for one reason alone: you recognize your relationship to the Earth. And a simple meditative acknowledgement of the Earth, the planet, can bring about a great deal of peace in your being. For do not forget that those lovely bodies that you construct to carry and manifest your intent in three-dimensional manifestations are themselves woven from the very fibers of the Earth. Your bodies are made up of what you put into it, of what you consume. Therefore your bodies are made up of what your consumed items themselves consume. And deep within the Earth are the bones of your ancestors, the bodies of other beings and matter that decays, that gives nutrients and nutrition to plants and animals that you then consume. The Earth also is composed of the dust of the stars and the cosmos and the ashes of the Sun, and these also therefore find their way into your lovely bodies.

And in that simple manner your bones themselves are made up of the bones of the planet. And when you walk, your bones resonate with the planet. You have — through your flesh and blood and your bones — you have a direct link with the entire planet. But you have been trained to not listen to these things. Your emotions do not convey to you only those hormonal signals that you then get carried away with, but they also convey to you ancient tides of long-gone oceans and all of their inhabitants. They carry to you ancient signals from other star systems.

They carry to you the movement of animals, and plants and birds from a thousand, a hundred thousand, or a million, or a hundred million years ago – species that have come and gone and have come back.

You marvel at the flight of the eagle, and the sparrow, and the swallow, and the hummingbird and the bee. And deep within your bones there exists a resonance because there is a dormant memory that remembers that at one time it was part of those bodies. Its own flesh is made up of the remnants of all of these creatures. You carry within you ancient awarenesses that go beyond your knowledge of time and space that speak to you of the oceans and the lakes that once were where you are. All of these things exist within your awareness.

And you consider such notions poetic at best, without necessarily understanding that they are so much more, because they too are the vehicles of the ancient songs of consciousness that have sung their refrains and their choirs over time and again.

And simply becoming aware of your relationship with the Earth, not merely with the cement buildings you work in, or the cement sidewalks and asphalt streets, but actually what exists underneath. When you go to the parks and the beaches, and your body and your bones and your heart even, recognizes the ancient rhythm of the waves crashing upon the shore and of the high and low tides; there can be awakened within you powerful perceptions of existence beyond the notions you have of it.

(Forcefully) When you look up at the Moon and you reflect that it is made up of more than cheese, you CAN get a glimpse that your own Being is indeed not insignificant, but of such significance that it gives fulfillment to ALL of your creations and all of your realities, because beneath the scratched veneers and the wounded reflections that you think are your lives at times, there exists a font of knowledge and wisdom that at times cannot be expressed in words, but must be experienced through the passion of your flesh! To exist and to express whom and what you are within that vehicle, a vehicle chosen and created by you.

When you forget such ancient ties with the Universe, you think you are powerless, you then think that living a life of depression is the norm: “That is what existence is, because the individual is insignificant!” And if we MUST use such a word, then we would say POPPYCOCK! (Group laughter) We would say much more colorful words, but there is a youth in the audience.

Understand that you have your Being because you desire to experience from that deep level. And we have no illusions — neither should you — that your Earth experience is indeed a powerful challenge, and you have chosen it because it is exactly that: an enticing challenge.

We speak either through other focuses of Joseph, or other individual entities, in approximately 16,318 other probabilities. And in many respects this first challenge – the Earth plane – is possibly one of the top ten most difficult to master (some laughter and cheers) and you would not have undertaken such a challenge had you not known that you have the tools necessary and the intestinal fortitude to bite into that challenge, and leave an indentation.

Regardless of how much you may pity yourselves at times, do take a moment, and not only breathe the air, but FEEL how the Earth in its ancient memories, its ancient echoes, resonates up through your feet and into your bones. Use your skeletal system then, as a resonance meter. The cranial structure and the sinus cavities and the frontal plate amongst others, feed you information constantly about your position in the here and now, in the very coordinates of your flesh and spirit becoming one. And speak volumes about your accomplishments – even up to that point – and constantly remind you that you are not groundless, you are not uprooted, you are not out of your element, you are not like a fish out of water.

Because on the one hand you believe you are spiritual beings, and therefore must be trapped into your physical bodies as if somehow or other your physical being is the antithesis of spirituality. But indeed, it is a dear, cherished offspring of your experiment with your passion for physical existence, which is the by-product of your being. It is YOUR construction. Any notions to the contrary are strictly belief-based and not necessarily constructive, but you have each to come to that realization that you are both mortal and immortal beings in one. We have said this before, and we will say it again: Achyntia Beda Beda Tattva is an ancient Bengali saying that means that you are simultaneously one and different with the Divine, because you are that mortal Divine Being.

It presents a deep conundrum, but you have your physical being specifically because you wish to fill in either end of that conundrum. So you have thrown yourselves a lovely challenge. So consider then, that your physical bodies are indeed precious instruments of communication on many levels. One in particular that it communicates to you the awareness within the body that animates the bones, that you are part of a much more ancient physical system; one that has seen countless millions of billions of individuals come and go, and may continue to do so for ages to come. And all of their memories and awarenesses are constantly recycled within the Earth by the worms and their worm castings and they come back into your being to create new bodies, the ultimate recycling system.

And from that knowledge, you as Essence create your focus. You create that body from the ancient elements of space and the Earth and your ancestors — those that have come before you. And out of that fabric you create flesh. And once you are able to move beyond those parameters to explore new passions, you will return the product to the Earth, back into the Earth in one way or another, so that others may come after you — or perhaps before you — and select the very fabric of the Earth that will make THEIR bodies sing and resonate with ancient wisdom and memories of you and all others.

Therefore do understand that you are never alone in that sense of the word. You have within your beings — you carry within you, your flesh — songs of lives of thousands of other beings, and they would gladly add to your passion for simply being who you are.

Now, what is the time?

MARK: 8:45.

KRIS: Then we suggest a small break.

(Second break begins at 8:45 PM.)

JOHN: 16,318 probabilities in which he speaks — am I the only one blown away by that?

MYRNA: No.

JOHN: And this is one of the top ten?

MARK: Well, life on Earth is one of the top ten — existing on Earth, as opposed to creating in other clusters.

JOHN: Well, we’re the top of the class. (Laughter)

MARK: Yeah, I didn’t think I was into extreme sports until now! (Laughter)

JOHN: But that’s re-e-eally interesting!

PAUL: Now, guys, on that 16,318 probabilities of Joseph speaking –

Paul T: Kris speaking THROUGH Joseph.

PAUL: Kris speaking through Joseph…that’s not through Serge, right?

MARK: Well, Serge is Joseph in this lifetime.

PAUL: Is that limited to the focus of Serge, or is that all of Joseph’s focuses? Is there a number that –

(Kris comes back)

MARK: Oh, hold on…8:47!

(Kris returns at 8:47 PM.)

KRIS: We did suggest a brief break! (Hearty group laughter at such an abrupt return) Now, we said the sum of the other focuses we speak to are focuses of Joseph, but not all. We also speak through other beings.

MARK: Including focuses of your own.

KRIS: Indeed.

MARK: Such as Clarissa.

KRIS: Not in this reality any longer.

MARK: You speak to 16,318 in this current –

KRIS: This is not what we said.

MARK: Okay…

KRIS: Probabilities.

MARK: Probabilities.

KRIS: This one amongst them.

JOHN: Very interesting…Just for fun, Kris, I’m kind of intrigued – 16,000 plus, my God! – Let’s just pick another one that isn’t as challenging. In what way would it not be as challenging?

KRIS: There are some probabilities where you do not necessarily go through your often torturous endeavors, in judging whether your thoughts, your creations, your emotions have any validity in exactly the same manner that most animal consciousness on your planet is combined and organized. They are part of the very fabric of life. They do not necessarily question whether they look good enough or not – do they need a nip and a tuck? — Animals act; they are action. Do you follow?

JOHN: Yes, I do. Yes, that’s helpful. So our paranoia is part of our challenge.

KRIS: Indeed. (Group laughter) And it is not a challenge that is imposed upon you from some higher forces, as some people believe that their Essences make them do things. That would negate any notion of free will, and free will is paramount in your reality. That is part of the bargain.

JOHN: Are there — let’s say among the other 16,000 realities — where free will is NOT part of the bargain?

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: How would that work? I don’t quite understand.

KRIS: That involves a completely different arrangement of neurological pathways and societal constructions, much different than your own. The underlying issue is that free will ALWAYS exists, but there is often the appearance that it does not, and those challenges are undertaken specifically for that reason. In exactly the same manner that in your past, slavery was often the norm – there are still places on this planet where slavery is accepted. There was a time when the slave would consider that he or she has no say. Do you follow?

JOHN: Yes, but at an ultimate level…they do.

KRIS: Indeed.

JOHN: That’s the cover-up.

KRIS: That is also a paradigm. The enigma is that the individual has all of the tools and the resources at their disposal; but there are times when the individual has hidden those tools, thinking it said that another has authority over them and that they do not have authority unto themselves.

JOHN: Just one more question on that — these 16,318 probabilities: are those all physical?

KRIS: In their views, they are each physical.

JOHN: Are they all Taaj?

KRIS: Indeed not. You may consider some of them to be less or even more dense than your own physical reality. From each of their perspectives, they are completely physical. They may not necessarily understand it in those terms either.

PAUL: Kris, are those past, present, and future in terms of time framework, from this now? That 16,318?

KRIS: They are not necessarily restricted to your present timeline or its interpretations. There are some that you would consider such extreme past, or future, as to be over the edge of your imagination. Not all probabilities and beings necessarily are humanoid, some not even remotely!

PAUL: (Laughing) We know some of them! (Group laughter)

KRIS: Suffice it to say that each one in itself is a marvelous creation of its citizens, its inhabitants. They set up for themselves incredible challenges in one category or another. Some of those challenges include the possibility that beings such as ourselves may indeed bring information. Such communications would not exist in your own reality had you not considered that this is a possibility. And that is imbedded into the blueprint of your reality, and it exists within the belief structures of the deities — the religious belief constructions. It is camouflaged by the belief system. Does that help at all? Do you understand that?

PAUL: Yeah, and just one follow-up: the number that you suggested the 16,000 plus, would indicate that the channeling phenomenon, the energy exchange phenomenon, is an important part of physical reality creation.

KRIS: Indeed, specifically since we have mentioned that it is imbedded within the blueprint, the grid of perception, which ties into the belief systems of religion as a means for the so-called “higher forces” to be able to communicate with the “mortals.” Do you understand? That is how it is interpreted.

PAUL: So then, in objective terms — because in subjective terms in the dream-state, in deeper dreamless states — that communication’s happening simultaneously all the time anyway.

KRIS: Indeed. When you have a computer network that is active, it always operates, even when you do not concern yourselves with it, as well as when you concern yourselves with it. It does not mean that when you leave the office, the computer system stops functioning. Correct?

PAUL: Right!

KRIS: Your own Essence network always operates whether you are aware of it or not, as do dreams because of their connection with this Essence network.

JOHN: A quick question – a fun question…

KRIS: Indeed! Are you ready for a fun answer?

JOHN: Yes! Sohars — one of the focuses of Sohars, name of John — is listening to Kris here on Earth, in this dimension. Is another focus of Sohars listening to Kris in any of the other 16,318 dimensions?

KRIS: A few here and there! (Group laughter)

JOHN: I’m getting stereo.

KRIS: You are getting harmonics.

JOHN: Surround sound! Right on!

KRIS: Most of you who engage these actions have focuses in other realities, in other probabilities, that participate in parallel actions to one degree or another, but may not always be as Joseph is voicing our intent. We have other means at our disposal. It is possible for us and others of our ilk to also construct an image that would appear as three-dimensional flesh, and perhaps speak as prophet, soothsayer, shaman, or otherwise to give specific information.

Their ancient myths of the mind concerning a white, bearded, robed individual, traveling and speaking of great peace and cooperation is such a projection and is a similar representation that accomplished similar tasks in a small Mediterranean country almost 2,000 years ago, and yet these are not specific physical events, but they become interpreted as mass physical events. There have been others in other countries, in other times on your plane, as well as on other worlds and in other planes of existence.

JO: Kris, are you projecting one of the Biblical prophets, then? You’re not saying you’re Jesus…

KRIS: We would make NO such claim. (Laughter) We are speaking of others who have engaged such projections with the assistance of all of the participants at those times. This is a joint venture. It does not exist by itself in a vacuum, but has to take into consideration the entire effects, every single minutiae of effect, along and across the entire timeline that it will influence. So it is not something that is done such as throwing a dart on a map to make a decision; but it is a profound, psychic development because it is well understood that such projections may influence thousands of generations, and its impact be recognized as necessarily part of a specific development of consciousness in human terms. It is part of an agreed-upon experiment. And many such experiments can exist simultaneously and parallel to each other.

MYRNA: Do we have any such experiments happening now?

KRIS: There are many small such experiments, but nothing that as of yet matches the event that was catapulted into your collective psyches approximately 2,000 years ago, in your terms.

PAUL T: Kris, are these the seeds that you spoke of from other clusters?

KRIS: There are often such events that bind themselves into many realities and many other clusters, and they are part of — you would have to call it — an extremely big map of consciousness that involves countless, innumerable consciousnesses. Consider a small scale version of this: you yourself are curious about your other focuses, those other projections of your Essence, you being one such focus.

As you uncover so many numbers of them — and you may never necessarily uncover all of them — you begin to understand that there is not only a pattern, there is not only layers of intent that are being explored with these lives, but they actually create a psychic map of the movements of your Essence in its interactions with time and space like so many blips on the radar, excepting that in this case, the radar scanner IS consciousness. The blips are the actions of Essence with their various focuses, and their coordinates are the precious lives that blossom from the seeds of that interaction between spirit and flesh. Does that make sense to you?

JO: Kris, this is Rosalie. Is what you’re saying then – tell me if this is correct – Is it that we all here together have focuses that knew you 2,000 years ago in the Mediterranean where you were a projection and that has to do with that map that you’re talking about?

KRIS: We did not say that WE had such a projection. We did say that OTHERS engaged in such projections. But we have said some time ago, that in so many words – every one that we speak with has had an interaction with us to one degree or another, whether in the physical as you understand it, whether in other layers of your dreams or realities. But in some way or another, each one of you listening to our words, reading our words, having interactions with us, have known us in one way or another.

MARK: Question.

KRIS: Indeed.

MARK: Are there times where others like us harvest the melodious voice, and you are the listener?

KRIS: Indeed. You do practice all of the notes on the musical scale. You do not, for instance, sing only one note, correct?

MARK: Correct.

KRIS: So you do switch roles. There are probabilities where you are the speaker, and we are the listener. That is the arrangement. That is a musical composition at that moment.

MARK: Indeed! (Group laughs)

KRIS: So we wish to remind you once again, that each of you make beautiful music, even if you eat beans! (Laughter) And all and above that, you do not merely participate in a symphony, but you ARE the symphony — the entire symphony — ALL of the instruments, ALL of the notes played, including the maestro. And there are many times when you switch the different instruments, you change the maestro, you create entirely different orchestrations, but still you play symphonies – symphonies of life and love and tears and joy. In other words, those symphonies are the PASSION of your being. So play that instrument of Life to the hilt!! Make music! Do you follow?

MARK: Indeed.

KRIS: You do not ever see a musician, an accomplished musician; refuse to play his or her instrument without someone might hear it. (Forcefully, and with a great deal of expression, and PASSION) The purpose IS to play that instrument and pour your heart and soul into it, so that each note that you make with it strikes a resonance in the listener and brings them into the immediate contact of existence that that note reminds them of!

And with these words, we cannot encourage you enough to play your instrument – your music! – To sing your song, to echo the memories of the Earth and to LIVE that life that is yours as no other can!

And we believe this will make a very interesting transcription!

MARK: Oh, indeed!

KRIS: And with that, we bless you with all of the blessings that the stars and the oceans and the ancient mammals and the creatures that will come after you have to offer you, because you are not only their inspiration, but their creators. And we send you to wonderful dreams.

(Session ends at 9:11 PM.)

Emmy van Swaaij

August 9, 2005

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois and Transcribed by Emmy (Atin Khum)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on August 09, 2005

(Session begins.)

KRIS: Now we trust that you are comfortable.

EMMY: Yes I am.

KRIS: And we thank you for your consideration.

EMMY: You’re welcome.

KRIS: Now from our perspective, your dream experiences and dream life has changed somewhat over the last few weeks in the sense that you are noticing not only a new, what appears to you to be new environments, even an atmosphere that is somewhat different in the dreams and at the same time we believe that you have occasionally sensed as if you went in one particular direction in your dreams. Your experiences would be very radical but at the time, at the moment, you feel uncertain as if you where to proceed in that direction because it holds unknowns for you and you are the type of personality that can only take the unknown in small doses. You like to have things clearly laid out before you even though a part of you does enjoy exploring the unknown. Does that make sense to you?

EMMY: Yes it does make a lot of sense, because I have had a lot of intense dream experiences also while on vacation, but also the last couple of days, even the last two days where there was a lot that had to do with sound. They were conscious dreams where I used sound as a, well it came out of my body or I don’t know where it came from but it was like triggering things that I did not totally understand, but that are interesting none the less. I’m still searching a bit for words to describe it, because it is somewhat difficult to describe.

KRIS: Indeed, next time you are aware that you are dreaming in a lucid state look about you. Do you know what that means? Look around you.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: But not necessarily looking with the eyes.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: But looking with your inner senses, specifically for either a ripple or a shimmer in your dream environment. It could be a wall or floor or a large surface of some kind and by looking at it, you may notice that it is different than the rest of the picture, because even though it seems to be part of and blend in, it seems to also move, as if it has a different energy than its surrounding environment.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: That is one of those directions that you find intriguing and want to explore, but at the same time are not certain about.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: So if you do notice such an event in your lucid state of dreams pretend that you are going to launch a small probe of consciousness, a small portion of your consciousness, like a miniature star of energy into that area and it may be to the side, to the top or the bottom, it matters not, [just] send this energy probe, wait for feedback of some kind and you’ll see that it actually does bring beneficial circumstances and that you are entirely free to dive into this energy any time you wish.

EMMY: Ok…does it also have to do with the spot in the room? I was in, I think, yesterday morning in a conscious dream, I was standing about next to my closet in my bedroom and I was very aware of the place I was standing. Not sure if I’m clear here.

KRIS: Indeed continue.

EMMY: And this pulling sensation that I felt and also had in other dreams at times, not very consciously doing so, but it happened more on an impulse or something [and] also, in the dream that I had about you, while I was on vacation. I had a dream where I was visiting you, in your, well in a kind of office (chuckle) and you gave me a kind of object and I went spinning around. I was floating in the air, and spinning around it was in the end of the dream. And I heard this beautiful music with it. Does that have to do with this also?

KRIS: Not as specifically, our energy was present in your dreams, only to entice you to explore those areas, for you to recognize them and then it is up to you whether you wish to explore them or not. That is about as far as our participation as such in your dream states, in other words to give you some encouragement.

EMMY: Yes it’s very encouraging, so it works (giggle here) I guess.

KRIS: And we believe so that encouragements are very encouraging.

EMMY: Yes! Indeed…that’s true and I also sense that that was the way, or that was your role in my dreams so to say.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: Like pointing…

KRIS: As it is in all individuals we interact with, merely as a means to invite and entice their exploration of their OWN greater selves.

EMMY: Yes indeed.

KRIS: That is the reality they are creating. We have our own existence completely separate from the energy we use to visit others and to give support.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: It is a projection of our own into your projections with your permission.

EMMY: Yes indeed, it is cooperation.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: This is very interesting to hear, also because in another dream I’m not sure if it was you or a projection of you, I had this very intense dream about a focus of mine called Dennis. I never knew it was his name, but I figured this out in that particular dream. And there was this other man who asked me if I had talked to a journalist yet. And I didn’t back then, but later on I think I did. But that was the same kind of encouragement I guess, is that correct?

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: And I am a bit curious about that Dennis, do I have the name correct?

KRIS: We believe so.

EMMY: Because I do not remember the last name even though the person I met in the dream, he walked towards me and he said: “Hey Dennis” and then something else, a last name, which made me realize that I was someone else also in the dream. Not only Emmy but also, he was seeing me as a different person I guess.

KRIS: Indeed, you basically projected a portion of your own consciousness in another focus of your Essence. So you would be aware every so slightly of yourself until it was pointed out that you actually were another individual. So this sharing of consciousness actually occurs very frequently. You simply became aware of it while as many do not ever become aware of that exchange.

EMMY: Indeed and I also have it several, more often, I think I also had it this morning and I also had it in the past but never with this particular (focus) while not that I was aware of that is. Because he was a rabbi I think, or maybe he had to do or work a lot with other rabbi’s.

KRIS: Did you notice the specific time reference in that dream?

EMMY: Yes I did, it was the WW2 timeframe, because one rabbi pointed me that I was still not wearing the star because I refused to at first I guess. And the dream didn’t start in that time period but at the moment I was Dennis it changed into that time period also.

KRIS: Do you remember the specific feeling of that individual’s energy?

EMMY: Of Dennis you mean?

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: I remember he was pretty grim, at that moment, not very pleasant to be with at that moment, that particular moment. And I remember… we were walking in this building searching for something, or grabbing stuff together. The other rabbi’s were a bit worried, and I was sensing that more was going to happen then just wearing a star that’s what I recall from it. I said to one of the rabbi’s : “well this will not be the only thing, that is going to happen” I sensed that there was more to it, then just wearing stars and people annoying you or being mean to you.

KRIS: How did you feel upon waking?

EMMY: After that dream?

KRIS: Indeed

EMMY: … Let me think, I was with this dream, I don’t recall totally, but I had another dream I talked with a guy named Kris. I’m not sure totally if it was you, but we talked about the same period and when I woke up then I had to cry very intensely after this, this was another dream I had. So it was not this dream but another dream, and after this dream I do not remember. I maybe have written it down after the dream, but…no I do not recall it at this moment how I felt after this particular Dennis dream.

KRIS: One of the developments that you are engaging with these dream experiences is a sensitivity to entirely subjective actions and realms of subjective actions. This is somewhat difficult to describe but subjectively you have as rich, if not a richer life than the one you try to make for yourself at the physical and egotistical levels, thus when you engage your new subjective developments. We are mentioning this for you to prepare for perhaps even more vivid and crisp detailed symbolism within those deeper dream and lucid states.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: You may not realize that you are on the threshold of these deeper types of experiences. Do you follow?

EMMY: Yes I sense it. I’m getting what you are saying.

KRIS: There are more dream actions and lucid activities, literally underneath the threshold of what you already participate in, in the dream state. It is an even more subtle state of awareness. And portions of your own image can indeed be taken with you.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: Well this will take some practice and some slow time.

EMMY: Yes I realize that, also after the experiences I had the last couple of days that it takes little steps, but that that is fine with me. (That little steps to be taken.)

KRIS: These are more secure than trying to reach the destination in leaps and bounds without realizing that everything occurred in steps. The destination is merely for reference purposes, it holds no reality. It is an illusion.

EMMY: So… what I did, I projected a portion of me, into another focus of mine.

KRIS: Indeed, now this is not intrusive or invasive, this is always done with permission. And it is not necessarily conscious, otherwise you would not have been able to peek through the eyes of the other focus.

EMMY: Indeed, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to?

KRIS: Exactly there are certain measures of safeguards.

EMMY: And that is important also.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: I guess otherwise it would be impossible to live.

KRIS: Very much so,

EMMY: Yes, because I also realize that after I woke up yesterday morning. I was pretty excited that the world was just the way… it is pretty fascinating that when you wake up the world is still the same as it was before you went to sleep.

KRIS: It seems that way,

EMMY: Yeah haha! Pretty comfortable I think haha! And also I had a dream in which this was explained to me that it isn’t intrusive. Because I dreamt that there was this lady who had played on my cello, and I said to her it’s ok to play on my cello, if you ask. Because she was having a lot of joy playing on my cello for that short moment she did it. And I think it was symbolic for what is happening here, that you peek into another focus life for a short time. But that you first have to ask permission to do so. I guess is that correct?

KRIS: Indeed, you would not have been able to do much travelling otherwise. And you always work on the premise that these adventures are not only possible but very visible for yourself. Without such beliefs then, your dreams may give you some small degree of satisfaction but it will also eventually turn to the same dissatisfaction that many people experience after a certain time. When most of their wants are based upon desires that are not necessarily what they need.

EMMY: Yes indeed and sometimes it is difficult to explain to others what I’m experiencing in such a dream realm, because it is very real to me. But other people might think: well it’s just a dream, but I sense that there is more happening then just a dream.

KRIS: Indeed, there are actions within actions, within actions. Behind any and all of the symbolism, all of the shapes and the forms and anything that appears in your dreams, there is a living energy behind all of the props, the appearances and like real life events, dreams do not occur in sequence in chronological sequence.

EMMY: No.

KRIS: Most people are truly unaware that even the apparently smooth continuous flow of events and conditions in human life do not occur in chronological sequence from the past to the present towards the future etc. and because the ego does such a beautiful, lovely job (a passionate delivery here) of stitching everything together, making certain there are no breaks per se. You do not notice that often most of the events in your days and lives are separated from one to the other.

EMMY: Yes indeed.

KRIS: You make the significances and that is fine, but beneath those significances are others still. And those deeper significances operate on the principle of … give us one moment … projected perceptions of reality, you could define them in initials PPR. Projected Perceptions of Reality.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: Have you ever taken the time to find out how a movie is made?

EMMY: Yes (laughter, I had to laugh here because I took several movie making courses in the past…)

KRIS: They may film the first and the last scene together, they may film the second and the second to last scenes together. And then patch them up to create a continuous sequence, giving the illusion that everything flowed from one moment into the other. And indeed it does, but not in that manner. And human experience is very similar. Everything looks and feels as if the thoughts and the actions of yesterday create the world of today which creates the world of tomorrow. But that is the illusion.

EMMY: It works the same as with how movies are made then…

KRIS: Indeed. The ego has the wonderful, innate ability in genius proportions to manufacture the appearance of a sequence of continuous events, from this pallet of events. That occurs simultaneously.

EMMY: It’s amazing that we can do that!

KRIS: Indeed it is one of the most misunderstood gifts of human consciousness and its exploration can indeed transform the very world that you have and your understanding of that world.

EMMY: Yes indeed, and I think also that a lot of people do not give the conscious mind the credit it deserves at times.

KRIS: Most people feel that in some way or another, the conscious mind and the ego are an impairment to the more metaphysical dimensions of life, whilst in reality, living experience, the very experience of living a human life is a deep spiritual gift. It is a paradox but that is the nature of those gifts.

EMMY: Yes! I sense that very strongly and I tried to express that also on the message boards and so on to people who are well, almost longing to block everything out of their conscious or ego structure…

KRIS: Without realizing that this is the means that Essence communicates with them.

EMMY: Indeed! And it is always there, even though people sometimes try to search for special stars or something, or special experiences.

KRIS: And they do exist but by thinking they are something else you miss them entirely.

EMMY: Indeed! That is something I feel very strongly.

KRIS: You would not have taken the time, invested the energy into creating a lovely human experience, regardless of its challenges, if its soul purpose was for you to squash it, so that you can pretend to be more spiritual.

EMMY: Indeed…

KRIS: And we do use that word very accurately, pretending to be spiritual by renouncing the human existence. It is by embracing it that you explore the true depths of your spirituality. And we cannot repeat this often enough.

EMMY: Indeed! And I’m glad you do so…

KRIS: Indeed! We take it that you will eventually transcribe this session and to it be posted for others to read, therefore we have added this.

EMMY: Yes! And oh I’m very thankful for that because it is something I sense so strongly already for years, but especially the last couple of days because there were a lot of discussions about this particular subject and sometimes people will just… won’t listen.

KRIS: It is an old programming, from an old religious Judo-Christian or other views, sometimes Buddhist and eastern or even metaphysical that gives the impression that the only spiritual person is one that is willing to sacrifice his or her humanity. And yet it is in the deepest parts of your humanity, that you’ll find your spirituality.

EMMY: Indeed and I also sensed that with myself that when I wasn’t living consciously during the day, I could forget getting clear conscious dreams. It just wouldn’t work for me, if I was hiding from myself during the day I wouldn’t do any different during the night…

KRIS: Indeed and you have noticed that the more you allow conscious dreaming and lucid dreaming, the more your awareness is changing. That goes hand in hand.

EMMY: Indeed…

KRIS: Intuitions have increased and not only a general sense of well-being, but of being fulfilled.

EMMY: Indeed, I’m very, there is a kind of lightness that I feel that wasn’t there before, and I think it has to do with my dreams, but also how my life has changed or my view on my own life has changed lately. And I also think I did some, how do you call that? I recovered of a kind of leftover trauma thing I guess. Well I’m still working on them but on the WW2 focuses.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: Because it was pretty intense the last couple of months also in the dream state.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: But I feel that something is changing there.

KRIS: Yes and eventually these things will come to pass. It is a mere embracing of those events and not suppressing them that you are finding healing.

EMMY: Yes indeed, because it was difficult for me to accept them, because I was having difficulties with really trusting my intuition, that I lived back then also or that I have a focus that also endured terrible things during the war. I was really struggling with that because I sensed that it was true what I was feeling, but it was at the same time difficult to rationally accept it or to admit it or something.

KRIS: Indeed, you’ll also see as the weeks evolve that it may even be no longer a question whether to trust yourself or not, but of wondering what kind of adventures you’ll discover today or tonight.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: Because the question of trusting will not ever disappear, but it will transform and it must be allowed to. According to your belief structures and you cannot force this issue. It occurs in its own time, a time that you have decided works well for your developing personality and that is the crux, the most important aspect. It is core issue here. Often people do not realize that they are a personality in the stages of developments, they are always developing. Your personality is always changing, maturing and so on and so forth. And what held truth today may be transformed tomorrow, and these are also acceptable.

EMMY: Yes! And if you are not forcing the change, you’ll be up to it I think.

KRIS: Indeed, definitely.

EMMY: That is also something I felt very strongly the last couple of days, after the intense dreaming I had. I always woke up at the right time, the right time for me that the experience wouldn’t continue for to long, for me to handle it in a way, at this stage in my life.

KRIS: You’ll find ways to balance your adventures in all respects. Please feel free to continue.

EMMY: A couple of years ago, I had this experience and this was long before I was training myself more in lucid dreaming. I was reading a Seth book, at my parents place. I was laying on my bed and all of a sudden, something changed and I was all of a sudden falling of a horse, with my face into the water. And I was this man well, being chased; I did something that wasn’t correct in the eyes of the other people, maybe also a bit in my own eyes. Haha and the water was so real, everything was so real, so I think I back then accidentally, oh well nothing is accidentally I guess. The experience of my other focus personality was so intense that I got swooshed into it also, with my own permission of course. Can you tell a bit more about that particular focus?

KRIS: Can you repeat the experience?

EMMY: Yes, first I was just reading, I was awake, reading at my parents place and all of a sudden I was in a situation where I was riding this horse, I’m not sure about the timeframe. But I was being chased by other guys on horses also I guess. And I looked around or something and I fell of my horse. I don’t know if my horse was being attacked or if I was just being clumsy, but anyway they got me and one man pushed me with my face into the mud I just fell in. And that was the point I was back into my own focus frame again.

KRIS: It is not unusual for many people, you included, to do just that. To momentarily become aware that your consciousness, YOUR consciousness, is not where you think it is. It is engaged in other actions and you simply noticed what was occurring with the drama of another focus.

EMMY: Yes indeed.

KRIS: Now at the same time do understand that other focuses can just as easily become aware and perceive your actions and may themselves have as strange an experience as you just had.

EMMY: I noticed that once, when I was in the US on my vacation, I was in the car and at one short moment there was somebody looking with me, I think. I’m not sure who it was but I later on dreamed about it and I think it has to do with the dream I had about the woman playing on my cello also. But I was just looking at this beautiful landscape and I think that this person peeked with me.

KRIS: It is entirely possible. We simply suggest that you do not discus these experiences with your therapy teacher.

EMMY: No, I will not do that… she wouldn’t understand and label me with all kind of things I do not want to…I wouldn’t tell her anyway

KRIS: Indeed, as your personality evolves and redefines its own boundaries. You are definitely bound to discover experiences of this nature more and more. Sometimes you may have sufficient time to note them. Try to recall them in any way you can, type them out, write them and use them as a reference for your own adventures.

EMMY: Yes.

KRIS: And even if it is only a small perception.

EMMY: Or feeling?

KRIS: Indeed, you may revisit this state at another time.

EMMY: The horse you mean?

KRIS: Or any of them, and in that way, allow yourself to explore in a more leisurely fashion.

EMMY: In a more?

KRIS: Leisurely fashion, and take more time to analyze what you experience with this focus or with that focus.

EMMY: Also the feelings and the thoughts with it.

KRIS: Indeed, indeed.

EMMY: Because I also noticed that it were always situations that were helping me in a way or we helping each other I guess, because they weren’t just situations randomly but it were always situations that I could learn something from also for this life I live now (in this now).

KRIS: Indeed and you may find that over the months and the years of keeping records, that you become indeed a type of dream archaeologist. Exploring other layers of the self like the archaeologist explores layers within the ground to discover the treasures that can be found there.

EMMY: Yes! I like that term.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: It’s something I’m sensing more often, that my dreams are pretty intense.

KRIS: And they may become more and may become less, depending on your situations. And even if there are no dream recalls do not worry, they will come back.

EMMY: Yes indeed, I noticed that over the last, if I do not force anything things are always back in their rhythm again later on.

KRIS: Indeed, there are times when the personality simply calls for a break, so that it can amass the large amounts of information that are contained within the dreams, information you know nothing about.

EMMY: Can you repeat that last sentence?

KRIS: Your personality may even request that there are times for no dreams, so that it can explore the vast amounts of information the dream symbolism or imagery contains, above and beyond the apparently obvious which can transform.

EMMY: Yes, so that I can take more time to dig into it, and not to run to another project after that.

KRIS: Indeed and these would be teaching environments, we mentioned sometime back that you can access healing chambers.

EMMY: Yes indeed.

KRIS: You can also take into this space, for it is not necessarily a room, it exists where you desire it to be. You can invite other focuses or even other individuals within your dream experiences, those that need help can be taken into that area.

EMMY: Indeed. I did something this morning I guess in which I experienced a double dream kind of thing. I’m not sure how to otherwise to explain it, in which I was laying in my bed dreaming and at the same time I was laying in this hospital bed as a woman. Not me, and I experienced somebody putting some kind of well oxygen thing, I’m not sure what it was. I’m not that into medical tools, on me. But I was experiencing both of us at the same time. Is that one of these healing chamber environments you are talking about? Or work?

KRIS: These are dream environments. Now the environment in the dream, is not necessarily only what you see, but very much so what you feel. The true environment is the psychological, emotional atmosphere that gives rise to the physical symbols. Just as someone falling asleep feeling very angry, powerless and upset, may dream of being on the high seas in the mist of a big storm, and they may not realize that the two are connected [and] that the storm is generated by the feelings.

EMMY: Yes! Indeed, just as the hospital was generated by the healing environment.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: That I translated into a hospital so it would be clear for me.

KRIS: And that is fine translation.

EMMY: But what did I do at that moment?

KRIS: Describe the moment again.

EMMY: In the dream where I was myself both as well as the woman and the woman was in the hospital getting some treatment I guess, and I was in my bed also. In my own…

KRIS: We do not believe this was a focus of yours.

EMMY: No, I had the same feeling, because I am curious if this only works with my own focuses, or if this was someone else.

KRIS: No, not necessarily, this individual may not necessarily a focus of your Essence, but there is a connection that is difficult to describe in words. It is an association between her Essence and yours. But you are not tied to each other. But because of your own curiosity and her own, the two of you met in that lucid environment and you were able to experience some of her perceptions, if only for a moment. You may not recall the rest, which was a much deeper connection, but it does not involve your conscious ego construction.

EMMY: No, indeed.

KRIS: But the lessons, the teaching you gathered, what you learned from that small exchange goes much deeper then what you can perceive. So you have kept it under wraps for now, it will eventually surface.

EMMY: Ok! Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. While you were explaining it I thought: “Yes that was it” or something. I think it was that way indeed and I also wonder what I can do or do I have to do something, still with that WW2 focus of mine because I noticed that it pretty intense, the dreams that I had about that.

KRIS: What you may do is suggest to your dream self to tone it down a bit, just like if the radio is too loud you turn the volume down. This may help to ease it, so that you can also continue to do other work.

EMMY: Indeed because it was a very overwhelming, well not really overwhelming, but it could be overwhelming.

KRIS: And you can expect that perhaps over the next six to eight months it may be more, it may be less, but during that six to eight months period that you’ll have peaks, but they will diminish, until the experience is settled squarely with you. And become part of your everyday make up, without you necessarily focusing upon it. Do you follow?

EMMY: What experience do you mean?

KRIS: The WW2 focuses.

EMMY: Ok.

KRIS: They will become less intense. As those several months continue. There may be peaks, it may seem strong but it will diminish.

EMMY: Ok, so let me see if I understood you now, it will be less at times, but sometimes there will be occasional peaks, that it is very intense?

KRIS: Indeed, but these will all gradually decrease, so that this now stays in the background, with an occasional visit but nothing dramatic. You can put those issues to rest.

EMMY: In a similar way I had on my vacation in the dream state?

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: Because sometimes it can be intense, but if it is not happening every day that is ok.

KRIS: And expect that. It’ll diminish

EMMY: I also have the feeling that it will. So if I have such a dream again should I just go along with the experience?

KRIS: Suggest yourself that when it becomes too intense you have the right to simply pull back and it to become more peaceful.

EMMY: Yes indeed, because I sense that the things experienced by that focus or other focuses maybe even, were very, very intense and mainly harsh.

KRIS: And look at your own existence. Though you overall enjoy a somewhat quiet life you actually do enjoy those moments where everything seems to lose control and becomes chaotic and then it recedes in the background again.

EMMY: In this focus I have now you mean?

KRIS: Yes indeed.

EMMY: Like a wave… (Giggling)

KRIS: And do consider that you are still young and that you can enjoy intense experiences, but do not be to quick to judge those dream states when at the same time instruct yourself to understand that when things become too intense you can simply ask for the experience to recede now.

EMMY: Yes I did that also, a couple of times. I once had this dream where I was floating in the air and I saw my own image, but it was not me, I think it was Dennis. I was wearing this hat, a high (Jewish) hat, and I was very angry as Dennis, and I flew through a window and I was being pulled to this situation. And I as Emmy turned around literally, to get out of it. And that worked because I knew somewhere were I was heading to and I didn’t want to experience it back then. Do you mean that kind of withdrawal from situations?

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: Because was that Dennis also?

KRIS: We believe that that was an energy you would recognize as this.

EMMY: Yes ok, because I’m not sure, but it was that energy focus.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: Because I do not know many details about him.

KRIS: At the same time, you can ask your dream self to help you explore other focuses that balance those lives to round out some of your understandings. These exist already, but they are not yet perceived. For instance, you have a focus, a man, a male, about twenty-nine thirty years of age, who travels in the ancient Silk Road.

EMMY: In the ancient…

KRIS: Silk Road.

EMMY: Yes (!!!!) wow!

KRIS: To travel to Asia, to gather spices and carpets and silk and bring them back. This is old, but those experiences are also very rewarding for you to explore. This individual might also bring a different perception within you. Allow yourself to broaden your horizon to balance out some new things.

EMMY: Yes! This is SO interesting because, I’m really stunned… because it such a nice coincidence that I was listening to a recording Yo-Yo Ma, called the Silk Road group (project). He has a group called that way. And it travelled the Silk Road and they made music that was made back then.

KRIS: And you found it nagging something very deep inside of you, like it awakened an old memory.

EMMY: Indeed and also the books I’m reading at this moment, I’m reading this one book by an actress Shirley MacClain and she writes about her trip in the Asia area also.

KRIS: Indeed.

EMMY: I think it is very interesting that my attention is getting pulled to that direction, and you are mentioning the Silk Road like that!

KRIS: You might find some of that individuals’ behaviour somewhat objectionable, because he is a shrewd businessman and he has many children with many women in different places, but overall he is a good hearted individual. One who likes his women, like his wine and like his laughter… and money.

EMMY: Yes oh that is very interesting!

KRIS: It is a type of individual who is basic and loves life, loves the richness of life, not the rich life, but the richness of life.

EMMY: Yes, like I do also… Oh that is so interesting! And do you also have a name of this individual?

KRIS: It is something along the lines of Graham. He is of an Arabic descent. He has many connections in the business world, lives to a good age. So when you can in a moment of relaxation allow yourself to drift towards those brief descriptions and the feelings they will evoke within you.

EMMY: Ok! I’m so very excited about this!

KRIS: Indeed, now may we ask what the time is?

EMMY: I’ll walk to a clock here… in the Netherlands it’s 21:59

KRIS: Indeed then we’ll suggest that we’ll end our lovely discussion and that your adventures in dreams, lucid dreams and perceptions, may they continue to bless you with insight. That is why you are allowing those experiences.

EMMY: Yes! Well, thank you very much.

KRIS: You are most welcome indeed.

EMMY: Yes! It was very interesting and Ill keep my dream eye open and also my waking life eye.

KRIS: Indeed, at one point one of them does need to be opened…

EMMY: Yes indeed.

KRIS: And we thank you again for your consideration and your lovely time.

EMMY: Ok thank you very much!

(Session ends.)

Rose Colored Glasses (Controversial)

August 1, 2005

Channeled by Serge J. Grandbois
Transcribed by Ellen Gilbert (Kwaa’Ji)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on August 1, 2005
© Copyright 2005 Avion Rising Inc.

Roll call: in Toronto: Serge (Joseph) and Mark (Philip)

In Castaic: Paul (Janaki), Jo (Rosalie), Paul T. (Antolian), Ester (Benata), Drew (Onoru)

In Oregon: Norm (Ambrose), Reta (Leihuu), and Janie

[MARK’S NOTES: Prior to Kris’ grand entrance, Janie was talking about a Lazarus concept involving the ‘negative ego’. As you will soon see, Kris was eaves dropping and began his conversation on this topic.]

(Session begins at 8:19 PM.)

KRIS: We trust you are all comfortable.

ALL: (Greetings)

KRIS: We are intrigued by some of your definitions of the ego. You have pointed out that there is a negative ego and that brought our attention. Would you care to define the negative ego, and where it resides?

(Pause)

MARK: Did you hear that Janie?

JANIE: (Laughs) I’m thinking — it’s been a long time since I heard Lazarus talk on that…Well, I believe it resides somewhere within our own self. My guess is some part of the subconscious, I don’t know for sure — but it gets us pumped up to tell us great things we’re going to do, to be discovered, and builds us up and leads us down a garden path; much like you’ve seen with famous actors and actresses that hit it big and then all of a sudden kill themselves or overdose on drugs because of their negative ego. An interesting perspective about the negative ego, it will speak to our hearts and our minds and tells us we’re either better than somebody or less than somebody – maybe not that explicitly, but the feeling is there you see, in comparison. But it’s been a long time since I’ve listened to Lazarus on it, so I’m not one to speak of it proficiently.

KRIS: This interpretation seems to bear much resemblance to systems of duplicity, and hearkens back to a time when people felt that they were under the influence of good or negative forces. In this case, it has been internalized where you may feel the influences of your negative ego. Our intention is to help clarify that as an additional understanding.

The ego itself is a psychological construct. It holds various patterns. You may call them energy patterns, vibrational patterns, regardless – these patterns are based upon the individual’s and the collective’s various belief structures and sets of convictions. Ultimately, the individual is responsible for his or her actions and must recognize that their own behavior is a factor in the events, conditions and circumstances of their lives and that ultimately there are no divisions and divergent camps of a “positive” and a “negative” ego that would influence your behavior or the behavior of others, or even groups or societies.

However, as we have hinted, personal and collective convictions are one of several determining factors in the behavior of the individual or the group, or even the entire collective. It becomes important to identify these items and specifically that the ego is a psychological construct and it holds no definite actions that are labeled negative or positive. And it is also important to recognize that the responsibility is with the individual that chooses to engage various conviction patterns. Without that recognition, the individual or the collective acts by default.

The individual or the collective will feel swayed and influenced and even controlled by forces it would consider outside of itself, foreign to it. And if the individual, and ultimately the collective, are to recognize their own divine origins, then there is a much, and long overdue need to examine what factors influence the lives of the individual or the collective. Without such an examination, you will continue living your lives as if there is a force outside of your self that ultimately can nullify whom and what you are.

A social, political, and religious examination and study of mental habits can lead to a recognition of what is necessary to recognize as the determining factor in one’s life. A force outside of self – or even a force inside of self – that cannot be governed, that cannot be explored, and must be followed. There is a means and methods by which the individual can literally re-program their entire cosmology; and that study has to include the individual over and above any other aspects of reality, because the individual is the determining factor in the outcome of the daily events. And notice we said or used the word “individual”, and not merely your thoughts, your feelings, your attitudes, or otherwise.

The individual is an amalgamation of all of these factors. The individuality is composed of many, many factors, and only by understanding the individual – YOUR individuality – can you come to the conclusion that you can indeed transform consciousness, YOUR consciousness. It is not sufficient to say: “Today I am thinking pretty thoughts, and therefore my entire day will be pretty” at the expense of everything else you will feel during the course of your day. Does that make any sense to any of you?

(Yes)

Utilizing the idea that pretty thoughts alone will give you a pretty day actually mitigates and hinders your growth as an individual in the same manner that you can wear rose-colored glasses, thinking that the world you see is rose-colored. It is superficial and at best very misleading. You are all complex beings and that complexity will never truly be understood or discovered in this one lifetime, though your efforts do not go unrewarded for you learn about the complex nature of your being – EVERY TIME you think! With every breath you take, with every decision you make, with every MOVE that you engage.

Your own neurological structure is so sophisticated, that even with all of their hard-earned knowledge, your best scientific minds can marvel at the wonders of your brain and neurological system and make concerted efforts to explain some of it, but are at a loss to how and why it works. And the determining factor is YOU – the individual. Without your individuality, animating the imagery of your body, there is no reality as you understand it.

Your most precious and lovely individuality is what separates you from what you call the “dead body.” That spark of energy or of life is often unrecognized even by your lovely selves. And yet the energy encapsulated within that one spark of individuality is such that all of the reality and the worlds that you know are instantaneously manifested from one leap to another, from one blink to another. That spark of individuality contains more energy than a billion suns put together because the suns, the planets, the solar systems, the entire spectrum of reality is projected FROM that spark of individuality. Such is its creative power.

Therefore, next time you ponder the mysteries of the ego construction, pat yourselves gently on the back for having created a psychological construct such as an ego that allows the manifestation of the energy from within the spark of your individuality to be made manifest into three-dimensional reality as you understand it and as you deal with it as a feedback mechanism through which you can then study and evaluate the process of your evolving nature. Does that make sense to any of you?

(Yes)

What is the time?

MARK: 8:41

KRIS: We suggest a very small break so that you can take a moment and thank your egos.

(Break begins at 8:41 PM.)

MARK: How was THAT?! (Pause) Any comments?

PAUL: Nothing surprising.

DREW: Pretty straightforward.

MARK: Mmhm. How about in Oregon?

JANIE: (inaudible)

MARK: Can you speak a little closer to the phone?

JANIE: I just said that what we think of all the things that we are, our mental constructs, and our interpretations of things and what we think we are, what we believe about things — we need to examine those very things, I think. I hope I’m expressing that right, getting in touch with what our thoughts are.

PAUL: I was struck by his comment on internal versus external forces, which I think can tie into religious belief systems of evil spirits – “the devil made me do it,” kind of thing, as an explanation and as a story-telling device, or as ego — what makes the ego creative — and he ended up on that “creative power of individuality”, and all of these dead guys talk about Essence or Soul as creating the Sun, the galaxies, the solar systems, they all speak in very big terms.

JANIE: Yes. Yes. (Agreeing with Paul as he is commenting.)

DREW: The INDIVIDUAL creates through their perceptions.

PAUL: No, no no, this is through the involutionary…this is the causal — what creates the Sun? What creates the Universe? This is from the BIG individuality, with the big “I”.

DREW: I agree in involutionary…but the culmination is in the individual.

PAUL: I agree, but that wasn’t my point.

MARK: The fact also that the individual — the energy evolved in the making of that is bigger than a billion suns because it has to INCLUDE a billion suns.

PAUL: See, I was talking about Essence versus Ego.

MARK: Yeah, I see that too, though, Paul.

NORM: A major problem with most of us on this Earth is that we do not realize how much power we have and who we are and we can be clearly influenced by external forces – external concepts and ideas and we totally control that much.

MARK: What I also see or perceive about that is for instance, anything that we do in any given time is in what we believe to be in our own best interests. So it’s not like someone else or some other force is leading us down the garden path. We’re choosing to go down that garden path because we think we’re doing the right thing for ourselves at that time, and later down the road in hindsight, we might look back and say “Maybe that WASN’T the best thing for me. Maybe I could have had a better experience than the one I chose.”

DREW: Not possible!! You always choose what’s right for you. Otherwise you wouldn’t be YOU.

MARK: That’s right, but that’s your experience and that’s the choosing. And then you’ve got to look at the probabilities and the possibilities because you actually experience them all.

NORM: I’m thinking about the sixteen year old Islamic boy in Pakistan, who reads the Koran eight hours a day, and practices the inculcation of hatred, evidently to the extent that – does he really know who he is, what he is, and so on. I mean he’s totally transformed by all of this activity.

MARK: From your perspective.

NORM: From a reality standpoint. From his perspective too, he is transformed, which is nice…

PAUL: That’s similar to a Jerry Falwell who’s taken upon himself as a Protestant to be a Protestant religious leader and inculcate similar hatred in the name of Jesus, killing the terrorists in the name of Jesus.

NORM: Okay, and that there are people that feel like Neville Chamberlain that everything is going to be rosy, and it isn’t going to be that way, and they would speak in German today if he would have been in power.

PAUL: Well, in some probable reality, they are supposedly.

NORM: Right.

JANIE: Well, I think we all have choices, like in this situation with the neighborhood – like if I made the decision to NOT go with what all the rest of them were going to do, deciding to follow my own conscience and beliefs, that I didn’t want to be a part of that. They don’t recognize it as hatred in their minds – they think they’re doing what Jesus would do, and in my estimation, that’s their way of thinking, so they can go their way, but I chose to become maybe an unpopular neighbor because I would not become part of the mass consciousness, seeking to follow the dictates of my own heart and feelings.

MARK: Yeah, and therefore you have a different experience than they do, but by doing what you’re doing you’re also making them think: “What the hell is SHE doing?”

JANIE: Yeah, well, and that is their path and I have to know that they’re on a learning path and I really can’t hold much judgment about their learning path. That’s their reality as they see it, and I have my own path to go on, so I don’t want to be thinking that I’m better than them, I have to watch my thoughts on that. I have to understand that they are in a certain reality according to patterned thoughts and the knowns that have become the realities in their subconscious minds and programming…

MARK: Oh, he’s back. 8:49.

(Break ends at 8:49 PM.)

KRIS: The more the individual fears the source of their being, the more the individual fears his or her abilities and powers – creative powers. The more the individual may indeed gravitate towards any of the many religious bodies upon your planet at this point in time, drawn to such religious teachings as a means to harness, subdue, and hopefully, control those feared forces within the self. Unfortunately it is a model that no longer allows upgrades, unless one separates oneself from such teachings.

For as much as all the major religious teachings on your planet encourage a relationship with a Divine Being, that Divine Being is usually projected outside of self so much so that the Divine Being keeps an eye out on you for anything that you might do that would transgress the laws. And retribution is usually considered as a swift action of reprimand.

Those teachings, though many such teachings are able to strike a certain level of balance, the distortions that have been incorporated over millennia are such that the individual becomes more or less schizophrenic to a certain degree, because it is viewed that there is a constant battle within the soul of the individual within the psyche between two adverse forces. And that is specifically why many people are drawn to the religious teachings that are prominent in this time, because there is the hope that the warring factions within the self will somehow or other be tempered through the rites and rituals and dogmas taught.

Unfortunately, true freedom will not necessarily be had whilst immersed within the teachings of one or more religions. Religions and their teachings can provide clues as to the nature of your being if you are able to read between the lines and actually learn to depend upon your own discerning nature, your intuitive nature; and allow yourselves to question whom and what you are, outside of the references allowed you by the teachings.

That may put the individual in a quandary, because few religious teachings – very few indeed – actually encourage self-exploration and questioning unless it is on THEIR terms. You may indeed find it most liberating when you begin to actually experience the boundless freedom and joy of living those inner experiences, and not merely accept the words even of those such as ourselves; but make it a project to go beyond the intellect, rationalizations, and the intellectual accumulation of knowledge. And actually allow yourself to get your hands dirty, and dig deep within the self to discover what you are all about.

And though this may sound like a critique, our intention is to encourage individuals to go from merely READING or listening to words, and actually going with their GUT; getting on their hands and knees, scraping at the soil of consciousness, and sowing seeds of wisdom acquired through experience. That is the most often – the most very challenging aspect of this type of material and information – is to get down and dirty with it and find your GROOVE in that very specific manner.

This is often the area where many people will not venture, but instead will wear rose-colored glasses and make claim that they understand the nature of reality because they wear the glasses. Does that make sense? Indeed exploration of self, examining the nature of yourself is very dirty business, involves sweat, tears, both of grief and joy. It can at times tug at the heart when you clean house; but indeed, the individual who takes on that challenge, and understands from the inside out what his or her reality is about, has authenticity and merit, because they have lived it. They have not merely talked about it. And this is a very important distinction.

Far too often, we hear of and speak with individuals who read a few lines, a few pages of material from whatever source, but do not read the assembly instructions. How many of you have experienced buying a product, thinking you do not need the instructions to assemble it and find yourselves with a dilemma on your hands? Do you not agree?

DREW: Or a screw left over.

KRIS: Or the assembled product nowhere near resembles the picture, and that is a very important distinction. What is the time?

MARK: 9:02.

KRIS: Indeed then, perhaps some of you would be so kind as to ask questions on this matter.

[MARK'S NOTES: Because we were having difficulty hearing Oregon, Kris asked Mark to listen closely for him.]

NORM: I have a question. I always do! You mentioned freedom and you mentioned open-mindedness. The limit of open-mindedness is critically important for a sociological code of living together. The other conditions that are optimum for each individual…..we have heard from others, such as Seth and Elias, that there is no right or wrong, but I feel that for a sociological code, there has to be an agreement between people to optimize the freedom for every individual. That sociological code has been part of almost every religion and it is perhaps one of the most important parts of a religion.

I do not believe in a personal god, such as Jesus Christ, or so on — I left that idea when I was 13 and a half — and I also, in trying to resolve the capability of the human to live a sociological code that optimizes…how do you determine that optimization and how do you determine the code? Would you care to comment on that?

KRIS: Would you be so kind as to summarize? [Referring to Mark who appeared a little dumb-founded at this point.]

(Laughter)

MARK: Maybe Paul can do that better than I can, can you?

PAUL: I’ll take a stab at it. Sociologically, anthropologically, let’s say the last 10,000 years of our history, we’ve grown as a species across the planet in isolated pockets to produce great religions, certainly beginning around 2500 years ago — what they call the Axial period: Buddhism, Christianity, and others. All of those gave very specific moral codes. They’re still with us today in a certain form. The problem is, the world is 25 years, 6,000 years, 10,000 years more complex, more evolved –

KRIS: Indeed, now we have briefly touched upon this in discussions in the past, about the great global disaster that was manmade. A great war followed by disturbances in the weather patterns and so on, and so forth. If you notice all of the major religions today, those that were founded 2500 to 3000 years past, all have a common thread: that the individual is tainted and flawed, that the individual, even before his or her birth has already seen that there is a spark of what you refer to as evil within the person. And that flaw, that stain — what is in the Judeo-Christian view called the original sin — is feared, and therefore the major world religions are set up in such a way as to try and mitigate the evil that that stain or flaw can unleash onto the world. Do you understand?

JANIE: That was their methodology of controlling their — they control by fear, even 25, a hundred years ago, they had their own group understand they had to be controlled by a religion. It’s completely way out, far out, as far as I’m concerned.

NORM: Which occurs in a large number – maybe all – countries, religions…

KRIS: It is the means to try and control those forces, which we alluded to earlier on this evening. That man, including woman, needs salvation, redemption, and atonement; and even then the slightest faux pas may undo all of those atonements. It has in some respects, greatly restricted the whole of humankind, but the experiment was chosen by every one single individual past, present and future who participated in that collective agreement for very specific purposes: to explore a reality that was founded on the notion that the individual was flawed, and therefore a danger to others and to himself.

There are many other experiments of consciousness that are based upon another principle entirely, but you have, as a collective, gone too far and are now realizing that you must somehow or other put the brakes on before you hit a brick wall. So you are now bypassing your own fears and calling upon inner resources that speak to voices such as ourselves, so that you can hear your own call, and can cherish the flow of that reality, of that experience, and direct its enormous forces on another path.

It is individuals like yourselves, by your deeds, and your words, and your actions, and your authenticity, and your integrity, that can indeed show others that it is possible to experience a different kind of reality altogether. And you still do this with the full knowledge and awareness that there are those in your societies that have become far too fearful of that inner reality and must therefore strongly adhere to the dogmas and principles of orthodox religious teachings; and therefore live in their own pretty bubble until they eventually recognize that what they considered to be a Divine Being outside of their own realm, is merely a projection of their own beliefs about their iniquity.

What they fear the most is projected outwardly into their god, a god that would be vengeful, merciless — even though they will try to speak of that Being as simultaneously being merciful — but they cannot reconcile it until and unless they reconcile their own knowledge of self. And that knowledge of self is that you are the Divine Being in question. You are basically then, rediscovering your own divinity. And we are not speaking here at the superficial, infantile level, where anyone may think that they can do anything they want, and everything is fine. That is also narcissistic. Does that answer the question somehow?

NORM: Partly — there’s another segment of our population that does not believe in any religion other than the fact they’re atheists, they call themselves atheists — they are materialistic, totally materialistic – their moral code is something that I really don’t know, and…There have been societies on this Earth, the Communist societies, that have no deep religion and prosecute anyone that believes in a religion and it seems that their freedom is even less than those that believe in a state religion. So my original question is: How do we develop an optimum moral code, or a sociological code, that we can all live with, with individual freedoms that are optimized? And that is my question.

KRIS: There is one simple philosophy that may provide assistance and that is that you do no harm to others. Do then only good, as you would do to yourself. But you still must contend with a society that believes very strongly that it is best to screw the other before they get screwed. Do you understand?

NORM: That they’re the major part of the population of this world — I believe that, yeah!

KRIS: However, you can subscribe to a different philosophy: one where you do good to others as you would to yourself. Very simple notion, extremely simple approach; and it can indeed work wonders. Are there any other questions?

JANIE: I just have a comment that in my thinking, that life teaches us how we should behave because if we react in one way to our fellow man, we get a certain reaction back. If we don’t treat people good, we reap the consequences of it in some way. So to me, life teaches us, if we listen carefully to it on those matters about what you just said: treat others good, and do no harm to others. That’s my explanation of Life teaching us how we should behave.

PAUL: I just have a question. It’s Paul – Janaki – and you know the Golden Rule, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” is something that is a basic moral intuition that many, many people hold and in fact, I think that’s the social glue that keeps us from killing each other all this time; but what are your comments, Kris, on those particular individuals – and we had talked about a sex offender, and what our psychologists call general sociopathic or psychopathic behaviors in individuals who – - as an example: if they could get their hands on nuclear weapons, would not think twice about detonating them in one of our large cities.

KRIS: Indeed.

PAUL: What to do about that? There is a time and there is a case, and there may well be a situation where you must harm an individual like that to prevent a larger harm unfolding onto other people when we’re dealing with weapons of mass destruction.

KRIS: Indeed, it must be understood that if you wish to perpetrate good onto others as you would have them do unto you, and if someone comes to you and knifes you in the side, it serves very little purpose to tell that individual, “My good man, here is my other side so you can get a double stabbing in, for good measure.”

Indeed, one should take appropriate action, but overall, pathological behavior of such nature – destructive behavior of such nature – is also a communication. Just as your thoughts are communicating to you the realities and the beliefs that you hold, so do such individuals communicate to the society what that society is neglecting to address. Often society as a whole will stick its head in the sand thinking there is nothing going on. Do you understand?

(Yes)

The longer the collective head is buried in the sand denying there is anything in need of addressing, then the stronger that cancer becomes because it is not being addressed. It is a social cancer in the same manner that symptoms and diseases in the body are a last ditch attempt to communicate that you have avoided your responsibility to your body and your emotions. So those pathologies at the social level are a communication that the society, the culture, has neglected its responsibilities and has acted like a collective ostrich sticking its head in the psychological sand.

By addressing those social ills, not with the purpose of burying them deeper into the ground, but recognizing what they stand for, and dealing with them responsibly, will you as a society be able to embrace the wholeness of your culture. There is great potential in your culture, but it is slowly being eroded away by the teachings – religious, political, or otherwise – that keep the state divided, creating divisions between individuals and groups.

You have experienced this to a great degree with segregation and the Ku Klux Klan. Now there are other forms of it as insidious, but not yet as recognized. Therefore, since your entire physical creation is allegorical, symbolic, it should indicate to you that symbols are communications, correct?

(Yes)

In the same manner that your own physical and psychological make-up is a communication is a prettily packaged concept of communication that mean deeper things. Your society can benefit greatly then from understanding that you cannot segregate the rich from the poor, the rich cannot get richer on the backs of the poor and so on and so forth. Eventually, the experiment will pay off, but it needs to be recognized. Does that make some sense?

PAUL: Yes it does, and I can apply what you said directly to the so-called “War on Terror” as we’re experiencing it now in terms of it being symptomatic of a segment of society that has disaffected youth, disconnected youth; but it’s coupled with a potentially lethal cancerous form of a religious ideology that’s spreading like a cancer across the planet, so it is a symptom, it is –

KRIS: Indeed! And that tumorous growth does not exist in Middle Eastern countries – that is where it is raised – but it begins at home. The disaffected, the disenfranchised –

DREW: WAIT A MINUTE! Let me interject – we keep talking about the disenfranchised as being a cancer, bad, dangerous! From their point of view, they’re messengers of God and we’re the Satan, and we’re the devils, and we’re the cancer!

KRIS: And indeed, what would that teach you?

DREW: Well, I think we just need to be careful here about – we’re getting a little bit lazy about allowing ourselves to suddenly make judgments about the beliefs of those who have other beliefs by using words like “CANCER” and “DANGEROUS” and when in fact, there really is no such thing, is there? It’s all point of view.

KRIS: The collective has a very strong point of view and the longer the society sticks its head in the sand and pretends there are no problems and challenges in the society, the bigger the problems will grow.

DREW: That’s a Western point of view!

MARK: But also Eastern. The reciprocal: America is the cancer to the Eastern philosophy.

KRIS: We are dealing here with collective duplicity systems. They are extremely volatile. However this is also part of your collective agreement: to bring about such volatile issues in order to create specific challenges and solutions to them. Do you follow?

DREW: Yeah – I don’t know who you’re asking – my concern is specifically with the vocabulary that we’re using and the subtle implication in this dialog about how those with other beliefs who were willing to die and kill for them are the bad guys, are evil when in fact, it’s my understanding that the whole purpose of these dialogs is to understand that there is no such thing, it’s all point of view.

MARK: But also, what he’s saying here is that America is calling these people the cancer of the world, but by focusing on the war on terrorism, they are ultimately creating — the other side is mirroring back to them what they’re concentrating on – and vice versa. On the other side, the Taliban and so on – are focusing on their fears and their hatreds and therefore creating on the opposite side of the ocean and mirroring it back to them. So it’s a game of badminton or tennis there, going back and forth.

DREW: When I talk about us calling them the cancer and the evil ones, I’m not talking about America, I’m talking about those of us in this room!

MARK: Mmhm. We are using analogies here.

DREW: I understand, but my — what sparks my — the reason I decided to mention it is because those of us in the room who supposedly are…one of the teachings of all of this information as I understand it, is that there is no bad, good, right, wrong, evil, cancer — and I’m not talking about America and political and collective consciousness, I’m talking about the five of us in this room and the language we’re using and the belief system that the dialog we’re using implicates!

KRIS: Would it be better if we had said instead that there truly are no challenges in your society at this point in time? And everything is pretty, that there are no usages of drugs, that there are no murders, that there is no slavery that still exists, that terrorism is a figment of the imagination, that is a reality indeed that you made now, it is the display of your collective beliefs.

DREW: But are those things bad?

KRIS: No one said that they were bad.

DREW: But we’re using words like “cancer” and “evil” and “dangerous” and those are –

KRIS: In actuality, we never used the word “evil.”

DREW: The implication to me in what you said [that] a group is cancerous –

KRIS: Indeed. We did not point out to any single individual.

DREW: I’m not disagreeing that there are challenges and things we need to face.

KRIS: Indeed, formidable challenges. You exist right now at a turning point, and how your culture will deal with its present challenges will provide the foundation for many future generations to come or not. And you do have social cancers right now in proliferation.

DREW: “Social cancers,” can you define that expression for me? I don’t mean by example, I mean, what do you mean by cancer? How is that different from change, social change?

PAUL: A cancer is something that kills itself and it kills the host. It’s suicidal by nature. It doesn’t heal, it doesn’t innately form growth or transformation, it’s suicidal. If that’s your choice – Nazi Germany, Communist China…

KRIS: It comes about as a result of a lack of fulfillment and you have, especially in North America, two kinds of existences. There is the existence that the consumption, the consummation of goods and services will bring about happiness; but the flip side of the coin is that people are not specifically any happier. In fact, they are even unhappier than they were. And though we are making a generalization, the statistics will show that there is an increase in the usage of dangerous drugs in your societies and very much so with even the younger crowds. This leads to a specific dilemma. It is a symptom and a communication, and like a cancer it can spread as it already is, and as a result, the society is crippled.

This hinders the society’s abilities to unfold toward its objectives and simultaneously the challenge that is taken upon by the individual incorporates the challenge itself. So it is a very difficult quest that your culture, globally and locally, is seeking to bring about with Balance and Harmony. It is indeed GREATER than any of the challenges have been attempted in many, many decades, because this time you cannot use a bomb and blow them away. This time there is a global awareness that literally demands better, more carefully thought out solutions be utilized and in a pro-active manner.

But you are not yet there. It will take time still, but the potentials are great because the efforts are quite great to bring about an acknowledgement and addressing and accepting of the situation. So it is indeed a tremendous challenge, one that demands that the individual dig deep within and use all of his or her resources to bring about change, to bring about a new reality. But just like the birthing process – of which there is nothing pretty about – the end result gives a pretty infant. Do you follow?

MARK: Did you get that?

DREW: Yes.

NORM: Well, are you saying that we have to know who we really are in order for this cancer, or, in order for the development of a new reality to occur? is that what you are saying?

KRIS: We are saying that there are many social ills at this time. They are themselves symptoms, symbols and communications just like when you have an inordinate growth on your body. It signals that there is something much in need of attention. It will not go away simply by covering the area up.

Now, as to knowing who you truly are, that is indeed a tall order. Deal with the knowledge you have about yourself now – use that as a platform from which you can then launch into other explorations through the innate resources and tools of your being. And ultimately, whether there are terrorists, social ills, misfits, outcasts, the disenfranchised, and so on and so forth, these are merely labels – for what they are is also YOU.

For the whole world, the entire planet and all of its activity are reflections of your individual and collective psyches, and that indeed is a most frightening reality to wake up to. But you are not without powers and abilities to transform that reality from something you may not wish to wake up to, into a reality where you look forward to opening your eyes because you know you can transform it. So indeed, ultimately there is no good or evil, IN THOSE TERMS; but we are certain that if terrorists kicked down your door this very moment, you would most certainly not invite them to the dinner table.

PAUL: Drew would! (laughter) Because there’s no evil!

DREW: That misses the point. That completely misses the point though.

PAUL: What point?

DREW: That’s like someone saying to me, if I don’t believe in the death penalty, and someone says to me “If they killed your daughter, wouldn’t you want to kill them?” Well, that misses the point. It’s not a question of would I defend myself. We’re sitting in this room kind of all subtly nodding our heads that yes, they are bad for doing that and they’re criminal and –

PAUL: Yeah, and I want to be unequivocal about that. For the record, I absolutely believe that.

DREW: (Shouting) Well the issue I have with that is from their point of view, they are messengers from God, they’re serving a higher purpose, they’re killing the devil and so, to say that they’re the evil and they’re the bad, when from their point of view, we’re the evil and we’re the bad; the concern I have is that we’re sitting around this room kind of all agreeing that yes, they are the bad ones when I thought the whole point of this information was to understand that good and bad is all a matter of point of view.

PAUL: Here’s what I [Drew interrupts]

DREW: (Still shouting) Allow me to make this last point! You said earlier, Kris, that there are ills in the society, and yet, what is an ill in a society is different – depends on point of view. To some, gays in a society is an ill, and something that needs to be changed, and to others, it’s freedom and lifestyle. To some, drugs is a matter of freedom and choice, to others it’s an ill. To some, pornography is a matter of freedom of speech and freedom of the press, to others, it’s an ill.

Yet, throughout this conversation as you’ve been talking about ills in the society and a need to change things and create the kind of world that we want to have, everyone is kind of nodding as if there is some agreement about what that is.

MARK: Okay, my take on that is that an ill is when we start killing each other and blowing each other up – when we have two sides that are supposedly in the right: that’s the ill. The fact that we’re choosing to destroy and kill each other rather than look at the other options and look at the fact and acknowledge the fact that we’re both coming from a point of view where we are in the right.

DREW: The whole reason we’re killing each other is because we’re assigning who is right and who is wrong kinds of labels!

MARK: That’s not what Kris is calling the “ill.”

DREW: We’re kind of talking about several things at once here.

MARK: [What] he’s calling the “ill” is the fact that we are killing each other.

DREW: Well, I don’t know – let Kris speak for himself! My interpretation was – he said there’s many ills in the society and he gave drug use as an example, and I would argue that there are those that believe that’s a matter of choice and not an ill, as with pornography, as with gay and lesbian relationships, as with less attendance in church, as in MTV being an “ill” in some people’s minds; and so it’s speaking to that kind of framework. I’m confused how we can all be sitting here saying yes, we can all reach the kind of society we want to have, when in everybody’s minds, that’s something different, and applying good and bad to different things seems contrary to this information.

JANIE: Um, I have a question…[Drew interrupts]

DREW: (Shouting) Can I get a response from Kris before there’s another question?

JANIE: Sure.

KRIS: Indeed. We used one example. For example: the usage of drugs. There are many other examples that could have been clearer, but specifically we referred to lack of fulfillment that is compensated for often by use of psychotropic drugs that numb the individual to his or her reality. We also referred to the rich getting richer on the backs of the poor. Someone else may define that as the bad and the good, the victims and the victors. We referred to terrorists, and indeed these are all actions chosen by both those who wish to play victim and those who wish to play victor, and indeed ultimately, these are games, but they are what your reality is based upon in this day and time.

You have to determine what you want as an outcome. When you can do that and others can see what you do and the outcomes you produce, then indeed they may alter their perspective and engage a different reality. We specifically referred to ills in a society in need of being addressed and being embraced for change, and we also mentioned that all of these are reflections of your individual and collective selves — the whole of the world.

Now what is it specifically that you find perhaps even infuriating?

DREW: Well, if I’m talking loud it’s only because I’m not sure if you can hear me over the phone. I’m not infuriated. Let me phrase it a different way. If there are quote unquote “ills” in a society, like drug use – if there are terrorists – and even that label implies that the people doing whatever they’re doing are terrible, and wrong, and bad – but if any of these things exist, isn’t it because that’s the way we created it and therefore, it’s the way we WANT it? Or me, as an individual, has created it within my own reality.

KRIS: Indeed, as we suggested, everything that occurs in the world is a reflection of you and all other individuals and their collective beliefs.

DREW: And our desires.

KRIS: Now, you may have a reality, but it is not necessarily the one you want.

DREW: But – but isn’t the reality that I experience a mirror of my truest desires?

KRIS: What is your true desire?

DREW: Well, that’s…..for myself, I have come to believe that the way to know what my truest desires are, are to look at what I’m creating; and so if I am creating a nuclear bomb in New York City or Los Angeles, isn’t that a projection of my deepest desires?

KRIS: We would have to disagree.

DREW: Okay, then I must misunderstand. Can you clarify for me?

MARK: You get what you concentrate upon, not necessarily what you desire.

DREW: No!! Well let me define — like in Elias’ terms, “wants” and “desires”. “Wants” being those things we BELIEVE we want to have. “Desires” being those things that direct our creation, those things that lead to actual manifestation. What we think we want may not be what we truly desire, and what we truly desire is what we will in fact manifest. That’s my understanding and that’s how I’m using those terms. So if that helps clarify my meaning — is that accurate, Kris?

KRIS: [The] words are understood. The question then would be that, for example again: take the mother and say, two or three young children driving and getting hit by an oncoming vehicle. What is the desire?

DREW: I would say, based on my understanding of the information, that everyone in that car desired that experience and then therefore created it.

KRIS: Then indeed here we are splitting hairs. Even though a society may create many ills, they might not be the immediate desire, but that is what manifests. So what is the desire behind that manifestation? What is it that you are hoping to accomplish by your ultimate desire?

DREW: I’m not quite sure I understand the question.

KRIS: Society creates ills – to what purpose? Is it merely to create an ill, or is it to create some other outcome?

DREW: I would not use that word! Because to me “ill” has a negative –

KRIS: Society creates an affectation.

DREW: A situation, a condition –

KRIS: — word by any other name – it is a symbol. [A rose by any other name…]

DREW: Okay, well I associate the word “ill” in a negative judgmental kind of a way.

KRIS: And that is YOUR interpretation.

DREW: Well, I’m clarifying why I wouldn’t call it an ill, but I guess I would say that anything that exists in society, whether you call it an ill or a positive or whatever, is there because at our deepest levels, it’s what we desire to experience, it’s what we’ve created for the experience of it. That’s why things are created, and so drug abuse would be something that exists in our society because collectively it’s something that we desire to have in or society for whatever reason.

[Mark holds up his hand to prevent Kris from speaking.]

MARK: I’ve got an analogy for you. I have a drug addiction, and I’m not happy with it, and I have a job, and ultimately, because of my drug addiction I get fired from my job. I don’t desire to lose my source of income – BUT, as a result, I end up going and getting help for myself, so I can overcome the drug addiction and re-integrate with society. I have achieved a desired result, BUT by going through an “ill”, something that I did NOT desire. And that’s a true story.

DREW: Well, Kris, is it accurate to say that everything that happens in our lives, happens because on the deepest levels, we desire it?

KRIS: Indeed.

DREW: So, if you have a drug addiction and you’re fired from your job, it’s because that’s the experience you choose to have.

KRIS: Though society may choose to create situations that are very delicate for some to deal with, there are ultimate destinations for those situations themselves. They are transitory. Another side of that coin is something very often experienced in Eastern religions and philosophies where one man may be traveling on the road and sees another man drowning and he will say to himself, “That is HIS karma. I will not help him because it is not my karma,” and will walk away.

Understand that LAYER of interaction as well. It is indeed a fine thing to say, “Yes, a segment of society DESIRES to use drugs, but it is also to be understood that it HAS repercussions that create many other kinds of fallouts and it can indeed destroy the lives of those individuals who may desire to shoot cocaine or crack or any other drugs. Would it be then helpful for someone to sit on the mountaintop looking down and saying, “Yes, indeed, that is their desire. Now let me go about my business.”

DREW: Well, but isn’t that ultimately the point? That – you use the word “destroy” their life, and from an information point of view, wouldn’t a more accurate analysis be that that’s the life they’re choosing to create?

MARK: Actually, too, going back to my analogy, you’ve got to realize that we’re working with individual and collective belief structures. So I have a desired outcome to eliminate this drug addiction, but I’m working within my belief systems. From Essence’s perspective, I have an endless amount of options but from my focus perspective, I’ve got limited options. I’m drowning in my own sorrows, in my beliefs about those sorrows and I think that, “Oh, I can’t get help,” like I’m stuck in this rut. I believe that I’m stuck in a rut, so therefore my intent is to get help, but I don’t utilize all the tools and the resources available to me to get to that desired result.

DREW: Then it’s not your desire!

MARK: But the path that I take might not be my desired path, but it was working within my belief structures of my available path.

DREW: Again, as I understand the information, what you create is what you desire. If you’re a drug addict, it’s because it’s what you desire, regardless of what you believe you desire. For example, right now I have no money and I’m trying to start a new business, and from a conventional point of view, I suppose some would say that what I really want is to be making a lot of money and have a successful business, but from an information point of view, I look at my situation and say “Well, this must be what I truly desire because this is what I’m creating and then therefore accepting of it.” It’s not bad or good, but obviously what I desire to create. If I wanted to have lots of money I would have it.

MARK: Also there, you’re looking, analyzing, from two different sides of the coin so to speak. You’re looking at it from Essence and from physical expression of Essence. From the Essence level, there is no right or wrong, good or bad, but from the physical level, there is!

DREW: There is, but the point I’m trying to make – and thank you for bringing this back around – the point I’m trying to make is – yes there is, but to everybody [right, wrong, good, bad are] different. And I was only concerned because the five of us in this room are kind of in silent agreement about what is good and what isn’t bad; that the terrorist with the bomb is bad, and certain quote unquote “ills” are bad, and that concerned me because we’re doing the very thing, it seems to me, that we’re trying to learn not to do, and that is to place our judgments about good and bad on other people or in other situations.

PAUL: I want to clarify something that I said earlier. The example I used was the “War on Terror.” I didn’t talk about drug addiction, gays and lesbians, or any other issues, which are apples and oranges. My concern is the type of moral relativism that Drew’s expressing and confusing between Essence and physical expression of Essence, as Mark clearly pointed out. My concern with moral relativism, saying there’s no good or evil, at the –

DREW: I didn’t say that – [Paul interrupts.]

PAUL: Yes, you did, you said it repeatedly — (continuing) at the focus level, elevates criminal gangster activity to some kind of spiritually informed activity designed to promote collective value fulfillment; and I’m particularly talking about the London bombing that just happened. That is a textbook case of criminal activity that has no business being confused for some kind of deep spiritually informed opinion that’s going to bring some kind of freedom or great realization into the collective.

The problem with moral relativism is that you can get into extreme forms of it where it’s just “a murder equals a kiss, and so what? La de da,” and the point has been made repeatedly by Mark and by Kris that if someone shows up on your door, Drew, doing whatever, you’re going to have a value judgment based on it. Elias calls it the belief system of Duplicity. We all have it. It’s one of the ten belief systems according to Elias. It infiltrates all the other belief systems. You cannot avoid believing in good and bad.

Now evil: the final thought on this, I want to say too – good and evil are traditionally religious belief systems, with a personified devil who’s there wreaking havoc on the world, that an externalized force – to bring it back to what Kris was saying earlier – outside of self that is somehow controlling things. And Drew, you made a good point that this conversation that’s interior to us — whatever we’re creating – good or bad, whatever we desire, whatever’s going on — is driven by our interior self and what we know.

DREW: At the risk of monopolizing the conversation; you’ve made some comments about things I’ve said, and some interpretations that I don’t think are accurate, let me clarify: I am not saying that people don’t hold beliefs, including myself, about what is good and bad, the point I’m making –

PAUL: Sure you did! You said there’s no good or evil! You said it REPEATEDLY, that the point of the whole information is there’s no good or evil! You said it two or three times.

DREW: It’s hard to clarify when you jump in and don’t let me finish!

PAUL: Well, it’s hard for me to make my point when you monopolize the conversation and talk for a half an hour.

DREW: All right, then I’ll allow others to speak, I’m done.

PAUL: That wasn’t my point. Just allow me to finish my point.

JO: It’s a very emotional subject.

DREW: I’m not emotional. I just want to clarify the point I’m making, which is that we all do hold beliefs about good and bad. The point I’m trying to make – we’ve talked about a couple of different things, maybe that’s why they’re getting confused – the point I’m making is that good and bad is different to every person and we’re sitting around in this room kind of making agreements about what is good and bad when – [Kris interrupts]

KRIS: Indeed then, we would have to ask: how do you know what is being agreed upon or not? That in itself is a judgment call, would it not be?

DREW: Well, it’s a judgment call based on the — yeah, I’m inferring, maybe incorrectly, from people’s nodding of heads and the vocabulary that’s being used – that there are certain agreements about this idea that certain groups of people are bad, certain groups of people are good, and the only point I’m making is not that I don’t hold beliefs about good and bad, but the very people that we believe to be bad, are in their own minds the heroes!

So I just want to be careful as we’re supposedly putting on the record information about Truth, that good and bad is different to everybody. Yeah, if terrorists knocked down the door, I don’t know what I’d do, I’d run, I’d defend myself, I don’t know, I’d do whatever is in the realm of my beliefs –

KRIS: In other words, you would act in the moment.

DREW: In the moment based on my beliefs, I suppose, but –

KRIS: You act with your own convictions.

DREW: But I want to clarify that I’m not saying there’s no good or bad, I’m saying that good and bad is in the eye of the beholder. That’s the only point I’m making. There is no – and I believe that’s the point of the information – ultimately there is no good or bad in Truth. It’s all point of view.

MARK: Who says we were talking Truth?

DREW: (Shouting again) Can we let the dead guy have the last word?

KRIS: That all depends. Fortunately we do not have a head that can be bitten off!

(Laughter)

Now then, do understand that collectively and individually you set up tremendous challenges for yourselves dealing with your belief systems, and out of all of these challenges you learn tremendous amounts of information. You grow in wisdom. You remember what wisdom is and you can then begin to understand what Love is at the same time, because regardless of the challenges and the social symptoms presented to you as a reflection of your own personal challenges, you always hold in the back of your mind – regardless of the emotional intensities in one room or another – you always hold within your mind the motivating factor is LOVE.

Love for self, and love for others because the others are also a reflection of YOU. Thus, regardless of whom is right or wrong in what part of the world, they are – everyone is – an aspect of you. And until that one in those many aspects are embraced, you may continue to haggle with what is right with the world, or not; but you will always know in the back of your mind that there is a choice, and that is to love.

Ultimately, that is the supreme choice. And with that, we leave you to your lovely, loving selves, and that you enjoy the challenge of the upcoming few weeks. The times are intense and emotional. Find your Balance and Harmony within all of that. And with that again, we thank your lovely, loving selves for having listened to our humble voice, even though sometimes it appears not so humble. And may your weeks come to find you filled with blessings, and a good night to all.

ALL: Thank you Kris.

(Session ends at 10:08.)

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